rec.autos.simulators

Also hoping that Rally99 will be terrific!

You aren't alone on that opinion of CMR, it's just that there haven't been
any decent rally sims since Euroexpress' original Rally Championship, and
the bar for rally sims is so low (International Rally Champ, Sega Rally,
VRally etc) that rally sim fans jump on anything that is even close to decent,
I think this is what happened with CMR.

I don't mean to put down CMR too much, I had a good bit of fun with it, since
it was fun in its own arcadish way despite a weird physics model and short
stages, I'm just hoping that one of these days we will have a rally sim with
realistic physics that will raise the bar for this subgenre of racing sims,
hopefully Rally99 will set this standard the way GPL did for open-wheel sims
(and GP2 before it). We can only hope it lives up to the promises.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva

% Amen brother!  Give the arcaders their run-and-gun, never-brake e***ment
% and let us simmers have at barely keeping the car on the road.  I love GPL
% and will keep racing long after N2000 is on the store shelves.  It's a shame
% sim-racers do not appear to be as dedicated to realism as flight-sim jocks.

Until of late we have been a rather small "***" consumer (race
simheads).  Now with the flood of "car" games and sims on the market, I
think our ranks will swell.  I don't think the flight sim junkies (err
excuse me "jockies"), just grew up overnight.  

One other thing to consider.... the better the simulation the large the
hardware demand.  Until you get the critter hooked on the softer stuff,
they won't be ready to spring for the hardware they need to feed their
*** jones.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

All true.

What I fail to understand is why using the GPL engine would be detrimental
to sales. NASCAR (to the extent I played it) was by no means "easier"
because of its physics modeling, but because those cars _are_ easier to
drive than the ones in GPL.

I might pick up N3 when it comes out, but certainly not if it features
some dumbed down ***arcade modeling compared to GPL.

--
Anssi Lehtinen

Just remember what I said.  :-o

David G Fisher

On Tue, 18 May 1999 04:09:38 -0400, "David G Fisher"

From what I've seen so far I think Francois may need some salt and
pepper on those words in a few weeks, since Rally99 looks to be
shaping up very well indeed. It all comes down to each person's
definition of a sim and what you expect from it, but I doubt Rally99
will disappoint overall.

About time we had a good Rally sim. I seem to be alone in thinking
Colin McRae rally was unentertaining pants, missing the challenges
specific to rallying.

Cheers!
John

Mid to late 60's Can-Am sim (66 to 68 with Jim Hall and the Chaparral) would be
my dream sim.  Unfortunately, this would be even a smaller niche market than
1967 F1.

Dave Ewing

Do you know if there a demo on the horizon (late May)?  How do you envision
multiplayer for RC?

--D.Cook

It looks like the demo, and a lot of info, will be released in the in the
coming weeks. There was a report at one of the Rally 99 sites that a demo
was to be available in time for E3 but it didn't happen. Hopefully soon.

David G Fisher

I tend to agree with you here.  Another thing to consider is that most of what
is in view while driving a Nascar simulation is the***pit and that is
stationary.  I think the hardware comment is just a story to buy more time so
Sierra can use the Papy crew to punch out another N2.

One thing is positive - At least we know we'll get FF and A3D when N3 is
finally released...

David L. Cook

% I tend to agree with you here.  Another thing to consider is that most of what
% is in view while driving a Nascar simulation is the***pit and that is
% stationary.  I think the hardware comment is just a story to buy more time so
% Sierra can use the Papy crew to punch out another N2.

Remember, even if you don't see the cars, they still require CPU cycles
to run their AI.

% > Remembering how long I ran N2 with only 4 cars visible ahead and 2 behind
% > me (before the Rendition card arrived), I'm not convinced completely that
% > performance is the real problem. If it's not the graphics (how much better
% > looking are the cars in N3 supposed to be?), would they really use the
% > 100% physics calculations for all AI cars? It's not done in GPL, as you
% > can guess by looking at them sometimes slide around the track.
% >
% > Sounds like a *** theory, doesn't it?
% >
% > <suit mode on>
% > "We can't scare the kids with those physics, but find a good reason for
% > those realism nuts at ras!"
% > <suit mode off>

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

<lots of quoted stuff snipped>

Umm,  I think you're close. The people at what's left of papyrus just can't
meet Sierra's we-got-to-get-it-out-NOW deadline, so, they're forced to do
something quick to meet the demands of the lame parent company.
Papyrus as some of us older crowd knew it disappeared when Sierra
bought them. The "papyrus" titles are the ONLY thing I've bought from that
lousy company in MANY years. And anybody who pre-orders from them
is a total fool. They always release to the stores first. Sierra has ALWAYS
been dollars first, quality second.

Umm. how 'bout IF? I'm not waiting on it so much anymore...
Later. -Mark Gums

I disagree, the hardware requirement sounds quite reasonable to me.  As Alison
has already pointed out, it takes a PII 350 and SLI'ed V2s to run GPL at
reasonable graphics settings.  The amount of AI cars makes a big difference.
Take the same physics engine and add in:

Aerodynamics calculations
More graphics on the cars
Twice the number of AI cars
Spotter speech
Heads up display
Pace car and Yellows
Force Feedback - probably the biggest hit

I'm willing to bet that a PIII 600 would need most of the graphics turned off
to run at 20 FPS.  If they came out with that, everyone would be crying about
that.  These guys just can't win. (In this forum, at least)

Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

Yup. Now that they've decided to sit on N3, Papy should do a CART sim using
GPL engine. After all, fields in CART are much smaller than in nascar.

Just my $.02
Hena

Um, interesting point on the FF there, wonder what effect the 1.1 GPL
patch will have on fps - anyone know?
--
Mike Buckley    
Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)1472 371591  Fax: +44 (0)1472 371208

http://www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk