rec.autos.simulators

I saw a commercial on TV for this today. Something new coming out by EA.

Los

Ridge Racer has much more realistic physics and playability than
Mario Andretti Racing.

:>
:> >
:> > I saw a commercial on TV for this today. Something new coming out by EA.
:> >
:> > Los
:> I do believe it is only for Playstation. You can check out pics of it at
:> WWW.EA.COM
:
:It's really, really bad. Doesn't even attempt to model the physics
:of a car.
<snip>

That's why it's affiliated with the Andretti's.

*****************************
* Michel de Rooij

*****************************

<< It's really, really bad. Doesn't even attempt to model the physics
of a car. This is a crime for EA Sports, who have developed such a
reputation for realism and attention to detail. Ridge Racer has much more
realistic physics and playability than Mario Andretti Racing.>>

This is so much bull.  As someone who owns IndyCar 2, Nascar, GP2, Ridge
Racer and Andretti and has spent many hours with all of them, the above
can be discarded for the nonsense which it is.

a) Yes it does attempt to model the physics of the cars.  Wing balance
affects cornering, and you can recover loose conditions with opposite lock
and it looks and feels every bit as good as it does in IndyCar and GP2.
The cars are grippier and faster than a real simulation would pit them,
which definitely was done to make the game more approachable.  I would
call the physics exaggerated when it comes to grip & horsepower, but they
are well modelled within the exaggerated grip/horsepower.

b) Ridge Racer's so called realistic physics.  What a joke.  Ridge Racer
lets you powerslide around curves with no loss of speed whatsoever no
matter how severe the slide.  When you hit something or do something that
should result in a spin, you are generally auto-corrected by the Ridge
Racer engine, with little loss of speed.  If you brake for a turn and then
get back on the gas, you will immediately begin sliding.  The solution in
Ridge Racer is to hold down the gas constantly and left-foot brake (this
can be done with analog controllers or the digital pad).

c)  Ridge Racer's "playability".  Ridge Racer has one track with
extensions and mirror modes to grant some artificial 'diversity' to it.
Andretti has 16 different tracks and 2 different kinds of cars you can
drive (Indy/Stock).  You have pit stops, tire wear and cars that can go
airborne, as well as spin outs, etc.  The computer cars also get together
and sometimes put each other out of the race.  None of this happens in
Ridge Racer.  

Ridge Racer is a completely unrealistic quarter-popping arcade experience.
  The physics in Andretti, while exaggerated with extra grip & horsepower,
are very well done, and has a very good IndyCar racing 'feel'.  On a scale
of 0 to 10 where 0=total arcade (aka Ridge Racer) and
10=GP2/IndyCar/Nascar, I'd rate Andretti about a 6.5....certainly closer
to a sim than an arcade racer from a physics and car 'driveability'
standpoint.

Its also the most fun I've had with a racer in awhile.

Randy

        Ridge Racer isn't realistic at all - that's true, and that's exactly
        why I used it as the lowest common denominator that I placed over
        Andretti. At least Ridge Racer has some element of weight transfer
        and handling, even if it is utterly unrealistic as to how it actually
        handles it. Even NFS - being another arcade racer - has much more
        physics realism than Andretti.

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You're kidding about EA, right?  I've never been impressed by the AI in their
NHL, NBA, baseball, and Madden games.

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Well Enzo:

Your review of Andretti racing 97 for the playstation is lacking in almost
every respect.  Is the bias a result of not owning a console?  But I am
sure that you will attest to the fact you do.  Also, atleast try and get
the name of the game correct.  It is not called Mario Andretti Racing!

The A.I. of the cars is extremely intelligent and the game play factor
nicely balances the benefits of an arcade racer with the realism of a sim.
The frame rate is extremely smooth without the added expence of requiring
a pentium computer.  

I am with Randy on this. The more I play Andretti, the more ***ive it
becomes.  It is without a doubt one of the finest racing games to appear
on any system, including the PC.  Indycar II is a good sim, but with all
respect it is just that, a sim!

Gw

Nice cheap shot, but you assume that the person to whom you're responding
knows what he's talking about.

Randy

snip

:        Ridge Racer isn't realistic at all - that's true, and that's exactly
:        why I used it as the lowest common denominator that I placed over
:        Andretti. At least Ridge Racer has some element of weight transfer
:        and handling, even if it is utterly unrealistic as to how it actually
:        handles it. Even NFS - being another arcade racer - has much more
:        physics realism than Andretti.
Funny, I saw Mario himself on TV hyping up his game, how it's the best one
he's played, etc etc. Hey Mario, get a PC and play some real car sims!
I'm sure glad that the store was out of stock on Ridge Racer when I bought my
PSX. I rented it first, and I didnt like it too much. The handling really
threw me off (literally). I couldnt believe everyone was hyping this game so
much, especially if my 84 Celebrity had better handling characteristics than
these cars in the game.
Physics model? Try Tokyo Highway Battle for the PSX. Hahahaha.
I can hear the fart mufflers blowing by. It's a PSX limitation, I believe.
They dont have the processing power to simulate an accurate physics model. The
PC might get grainier graphics, slow 3d-rendering, etc. but handling physics
sure is coded well (by most).
 I wonder how the car physics on the PSX Need for Speed compares to the PC
version? Anyone played both?

        NASCAR, Indycar I and II, Sega Rally, NFS, etc. etc. and they were
        in total agreement about the lack of physics. Just because wing
        balance affects cornering and opposite lock helps straighten
        out a loose situation doesn't mean that the game has a good
        physics model. Any game can fake that. Real driving physics
        comes in with weight transfer and the feel that weight transfer
        creates (and how it changes handling dynamically). >>

Sorry, but I just don't see it.  If you corner too hard in Andretti,
you'll lose grip.  If you go into a turn too hot, you'll experience a
push.  If you change the balance of the car with wings, you can compensate
to some extent, but at the cost of speed.  This is all realistic.  Just
because you don't graphically see the car leaning from side to side
doesn't mean squat.  You don't lean side to side in IndyCar either.  The
first you know you're transfering too much weight is tire squeal as your
tires lose grip.  Are you going to say that because IndyCars in ICR2
aren't leaning around on their suspension that the game doesn't model
weight transfer?  The problem with your post is that the way you judge the
effects of weight transfer is wrong.  The effects of weight transfer in
Andretti are somewhat diminished by the incredible amount of extra grip
you get in the car compared to the real thing, but the effects of weight
transfer are clearly evident, as are the effects of brake locking when
your speed drops to the point where you aren't getting enough downforce
(grip) on the front wheels while applying maximum braking.

I have yet to read anything in your post that substantiates your claim
that there is a lack of weight transfer physics in Andretti, or that
Andretti somehow has a worse physics model than Ridge Racer, which truly
has no physics model other than leaning the cars during hard corners.

Randy

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

IICC3 Rebel Alliance Lola/Ford/Firestone
ITCC Player's Ltd. Audi A4

Hey Greg... you may remember me from IICC.  Well, I'm having a blast with
Andretti & the wheel.  Great adrenalin rush, super-aggressive AI drivers,
bumpy roads, brakes that actually lock up realistically, super-textured
graphics, better engine sounds, and high speed make Andretti a blast, even
if you don't take it quite as seriously as IndyCar II.  IndyCar II needs a
serious graphics shot in the arm and I'd be in hog heaven.

Randy