rec.autos.simulators

I read Randy's review and this whetted my appetite.  I downloaded
some .MOVs and this further piqued my interest.  I finally
found someone with a Playstation and NFS3, and they had to
pry me away hours later.  My first thought was "wow... looks
beautiful.  Is this really a Playstation?".  My second thought
was "what a frame rate... is this really a Playstation?".  I
hope that EA can code the PC version as well.  I won't repeat
Randy's review.  I concur with almost all of it.  The driving
model is a hoot, even with a digital pad.  The split-screen
mode hums along almost as fast as the single player.  The
single player mode is one of the best looking displays that I
have seen on any recent title, PC or otherwise.  Oh, and the
police are fun.

What I'd like to comment on are the tracks, and this whole over-
blown debate about circuits versus open road courses.  Well,
having finally played NFS3, all I can say is that some
of the tracks will make you forget all about the NFS1 courses.
Just as NFS1 had several arcade style tracks that most of the
so called simheads ignored, there are a few in NFS3 that are
a little too fanciful, but still much more fun to drive
than any of the NFS1 circuits, or ANY of the NFS2 disasters.
NFS1 really only had two good road courses.  The "city" course
just didn't do anything for me.  NFS3 has two (actually 4)
courses that stand out - a long and a short version of each.
The two versions of the "middle America" style country roads
are great fun for high-speed, "am I going to find JUST enough
traction to pull this one off before the ditch" cornering.
But the winner here is the mountain pass route, either the
short summer version of the long winter version.  I live
smack in the middle of the Swiss Alps right now (ignore the
.ca, I use my old university account as a spam filter) and
every road out of my town goes over a twisty mountain pass.
EA have nailed the feel of this type of road dead on.  The
old alpine course in NFS1 is a joke now.  Forgetting the
primitive graphics and the oh-so-constrained driving environment,
the "rhythm" of turns that people have been trumpeting about
is terrible compared to the alpine course in NFS3.  It's like
someone lifted the road from Alvaneu to Davos (get a swiss map
if you like) and popped it into the game.  It has the same feel.
A flat out left-right-left followed by a triple-downshift hard
corner.  A series of three hairpins strung together, but not
the "cheap" hairpins from NFS2 that had you banging and grinding
off the outside barrier... nope, proper mountain corners with
the combined effect of braking and gravity loading up the
outside front tire, diving in on trail braking, hitting a
late apex and rushing towards the next one, pulled along
by the 12% grade (oh, and 400 horses).  And if you have a little
concentration left over, you can look over and see your competitor
smoking his tires on the next section down.  If you really like,
you can haul on the binders, take a 90 degree detour and land on
top of him (ok... not realistic, but a good example of the freedom
of movement that you have in this game).  A sleepy little town
that you rush through, kicking up little dust whorls as you cut
oh-so-close to the lampposts.  Decreasing radius corners in the
middle of downhill tunnels.  Man, I hate those ones, and the Swiss
put them EVERYWHERE over here.  And guess what?  The ones in the
game feel just the same.

Look, I could go on and on.  But I will say it one more time.
I live in the moutains.  I drive this type of road every day.  For
the alpine course in NFS3, at least, EA have really got it right.
The alpine course in NFS1 doesn't even come close, and even though
it is "open road", it feels much more contrived than the circuit
("boo...hiss") course in NFS3.

So stop worrying.  Just buy it and have fun.  Lots of fun.

Stephen

SNIP!!

I appreciate the comments and especially comparisons to NFS1 Alpine. I live
in the Pacific NW in the USA, and also have done lots of driving in the
Cascade and Rocky Mountains, one reason why Alpine always seemed almost
real life to me.

As a *huge* fan of the Alpine + Coastal NFS1 tracks upon which I have spent
100's of fun AI chasing, cop ditching hours, I can only say that I really
really hope that you are right, I am hoping that NFS3 will be able to win
a permanent place on my Harddrive much like NFS-SE which has been there for
years now. NFS2 was only there for one weekend before being deleted and
returned.

Looking forward to the PC version of NFS3, anyone know when it is expected
for release?

Cheers.

--John
--
*kludger AT zipcon DOT com*  | ICQ #7522564  contact me at:
  Seattle, Washington USA.   | http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7522564

Sorry to come in on this so late, but I'm a very satisifed owner of Need
for Speed SE (which I got for $15 in a bargain
bin at Fry's Electronics.) Even though it's old, something about the game
just keeps me playing it much more than
other boring driving titles... Can you tell me what you didn't like about
Need for Speed II, which I was considering buying?

Tom

NFS2 had terrible courses.  The closest to a real road course was
the Pacific course, which had some neat little scenic references
to Vancouver for anyone who has lived there.  But mostly the
road courses in NFS2 followed the patter of high speed straight
into a long big-air jump into a "HOLY S**T" hairpin.  Completely
unrealistic and no fun to drive.  

To the other reply, I also have NFS SE on my harddrive, and until
I tried NFS3 I was more than happy.  The fact that I bought it for
$15 also made me less critical.  Until the PC version of NFS3
comes out (and I buy a 3dfx) I will still be happy to hook up
over the net using NFS SE.  But now that I have tried the newest
iteration, it is difficult to go back to banging off invisible
walls, driving in daytime and pseudo evening where it is always
clear weather, being chased by one lonely cop in a dog ugly
Mustang.  After you've had the pursuit car hound you into a
downhill, snowy hairpin at night, and you see the lights of
the police roadblock 50m below you, it will be difficult to go
back.  Add in a (probable) network link, with fast, high-res
screens on each, and you will smell the smoke as your opponent
overcooks the next corner and runs wide in a huge cloud of
tire smoke, leaving lurid black stripes on the road.  It
was quite satisfying to play 2-player on the Playstation,
turn off the "catch up" feature and then totally frustrate my
friend who couldn't understand how my calm, sim-oriented
driving style pushed my Corvette far ahead of his Ferarri
550, driven with arcade oriented smokey exhuberance.  If the
"game" rewards proper driving technique in this way, then I
think that it has successfully straddled the game/sim line.

One funny "bug" with NFS3, though, is that all the civilian drivers,
including granny in her Subaru wagon, pull smokey four wheel drifts
into the corners.

Stephen

: Sorry to come in on this so late, but I'm a very satisifed owner of Need
: for Speed SE (which I got for $15 in a bargain
: bin at Fry's Electronics.) Even though it's old, something about the game
: just keeps me playing it much more than
: other boring driving titles... Can you tell me what you didn't like about
: Need for Speed II, which I was considering buying?
:
: Tom
:




: > SNIP!!
: > >Look, I could go on and on.  But I will say it one more time.
: > >I live in the mountains.  I drive this type of road every day.  For
: > >the alpine course in NFS3, at least, EA have really got it right.
: > >The alpine course in NFS1 doesn't even come close, and even though
: > >it is "open road", it feels much more contrived than the circuit
: > >("boo...hiss") course in NFS3.
: > >
: > >So stop worrying.  Just buy it and have fun.  Lots of fun.
: > >
: > >Stephen
: >
: > I appreciate the comments and especially comparisons to NFS1 Alpine. I
: live
: > in the Pacific NW in the USA, and also have done lots of driving in the
: > Cascade and Rocky Mountains, one reason why Alpine always seemed almost
: > real life to me.
: >
: > As a *huge* fan of the Alpine + Coastal NFS1 tracks upon which I have
: spent
: > 100's of fun AI chasing, cop ditching hours, I can only say that I really
: > really hope that you are right, I am hoping that NFS3 will be able to win
: > a permanent place on my Harddrive much like NFS-SE which has been there
: for
: > years now. NFS2 was only there for one weekend before being deleted and
: > returned.
: >
: > Looking forward to the PC version of NFS3, anyone know when it is
: expected
: > for release?
: >
: > Cheers.
: >
: > --John
: > --
: > *kludger AT zipcon DOT com*  | ICQ #7522564  contact me at:
: >   Seattle, Washington USA.   | http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7522564
: >

The tracks in the PC version of NFS3 might be different than the tracks in
the PSX version. There were rumors going around when NFS3 was delayed, that
the PC version might get different tracks.
I like the tracks in NFS3, my favorite is Empire City. I also liked some of
the tracks in NFS2se, like North Country and Mediterraneo. I hope NFS3 on PC
has more tracks. The PSX version really only has 5 environments,
each track has a beginner, and a expert course, with Empire City being a
stand alone course.
I also miss the wild mode on NFS2se. I hope they add that to the PC version
as well.

I guess what I REALLY like about NFS1/SE is that it has just enough realism
in the driving model + realistic tracks + more real obtainable vehicles +
cops chasing you +***pit view to make a terrific combination.

Anyhow, NFS2 just was too much of an arcade racer for me, and I already have
better arcade racers (Screamer2 + Moto Racer). Also be aware of NFS2-SE
it is just NFS2 with pretty 3dfx graphics minus a***pit view.

Still really hope that NFS3 PC version has a***pit view back.

Cheers.
--John
--
*kludger AT zipcon DOT com*  | ICQ #7522564  contact me at:
  Seattle, Washington USA.   | http://www.racesimcentral.net/

But here's my question...

Did the PSX version have an in-car view? and more importantly, will the
PC-3Dfx version have an in-car view?  I can't seem to classify any driving
game as a sim unless I can turn off all HUD options and drive on instruments
alone.

The features of NFS3 PC have not been released yet.

Joe

: But here's my question...
:
: Did the PSX version have an in-car view? and more importantly, will the
: PC-3Dfx version have an in-car view?  I can't seem to classify any driving
: game as a sim unless I can turn off all HUD options and drive on instruments
: alone.
:
:
Nope.  Didn't miss it either.  I would gladly take the boost in framerate
over a 2D pseudo***pit.  Just my opinion, of course.  I rarely look at
the instruments or HUD anyway, relying more on engine noise and tire
noise, plus a memory of which gear I am in.  I always found the steering
wheel a bit cheesy as well.  The sensation of speed is also better with
one of the so-called bumper cams, but Randy had a valid point than a
"over the hood" view like TOCA would halp car placement without hurting
framerate.

S.

car placement without hurting framerate.

Thats another thing... What is it technically that inhibits 3Dfx hardware
from placing a static 2D image in with the rest of the scene?  When I first
got my 3Dfx card I was amazed at the quality and framerate. Then I got CPR.
With the dash on I lose 10-15fps.
Does anyone out there know what specificaly is limiting the hardware from
performing this seemingly simple task?

'Virtually' behind the wheel, when It's possible.

The PSX version really only has 5 environments,
Each of the first four tracks has an extension, which branches off into the
other track.  I'd say that no more than 20% of the track is shared.  In
other words, the starting line area is the same for the beginner and the
expert tracks, but after a short distance, you'll veer off to drive on the
other track, eventually joining up with the section from the beginner track.
If this overlapping allowed EA to have 9 tracks instead of say, six, I say
"more power to them".
Also, NFS III has a total of 14 tracks, not nine.  There are five bonus
tracks which are "easter eggs", and cannot be accessed except by a password.
There is a track that's in a child's bedroom.  Another is a rally type track
in a trench.  There's one that takes place in a cave;  I dare anyone to get
around one lap without hitting anything!  The fourth one is on a space
station.  And the fifth one, which is the best, is underwater, inside tubes,
like in the Aquatica track.  Very cool.
Passwords for these tracks can be found at http://www.racesimcentral.net/

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