rec.autos.simulators

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or
is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of
the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit,
rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by
marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto
Zandvoort and most of the other circuits.

Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it.
--
Regards,
Bruce.
------------------------------

Web Site:- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Greger Hut** » Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

>Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
>doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or
>is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul
Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect
the cameras. It takes time, though.

I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are
mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :)

However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings,
too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do.

But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me!

As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from
http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

--
Greger Huttu

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Thank you Greger...much obliged.
I'll have a look at Paul Hoad's editor thing.

> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

> >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
> >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit?
Or
> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

> There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul
> Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect
> the cameras. It takes time, though.

> >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of
> >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit,
> >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

> I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are
> mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :)

> However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings,
> too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do.

> But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me!

> >For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by
> >marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto
> >Zandvoort and most of the other circuits.

> >Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it.

> As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from
> http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

> --
> Greger Huttu

by **Mark Croasdal** » Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:00:00

A suggestion: what about a TV1 or TV2 set of views designed to simulate a real world spectator view? ie, cameras placed in grandstands and behind the fence at ground level. Setting them up with a wide angle and just panning with no zoom would add to the effect.

Or what about a single camera positioned to give a view of a large section of track? Similar to the pit lane view but more interesting.

Mark Croasdale

>Thank you Greger...much obliged.
>I'll have a look at Paul Hoad's editor thing.

>> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

>> >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
>> >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit?
>Or
>> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

>> There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul
>> Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect
>> the cameras. It takes time, though.

>> >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of
>> >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit,
>> >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

>> I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are
>> mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :)

>> However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings,
>> too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do.

>> But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me!

>> >For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by
>> >marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto
>> >Zandvoort and most of the other circuits.

>> >Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it.

>> As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from
>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

>> --
>> Greger Huttu

by **Greger Hut** » Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:57:27 +0100, "Mark Croasdale"

>A suggestion: what about a TV1 or TV2 set of views designed to simulate =
>a real world spectator view? ie, cameras placed in grandstands and =
>behind the fence at ground level. Setting them up with a wide angle and =
>just panning with no zoom would add to the effect.

Mark, have you downloaded my camera settings? There are many cameras
positioned behind fences, in grandstands etc.

Try them and give me your comments. That wide angle with panning / no
zoom sounds interesting. I'll give it a try.

They work sometimes, but usually there are some graphic bugs visible
when you do these kind of cameras and I try to avoid that as much as
possible.

But true, they look very spectacular when there are no graphic bugs
visible.

URL to my page: http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

--
Greger Huttu

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Good suggestion Mark...particularly the first one.

A suggestion: what about a TV1 or TV2 set of views designed to simulate a
real world spectator view? ie, cameras placed in grandstands and behind the
fence at ground level. Setting them up with a wide angle and just panning
with no zoom would add to the effect.

Or what about a single camera positioned to give a view of a large section
of track? Similar to the pit lane view but more interesting.

Mark Croasdale

>Thank you Greger...much obliged.
>I'll have a look at Paul Hoad's editor thing.

>> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

>> >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
>> >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit?
>Or
>> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

>> There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul
>> Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect
>> the cameras. It takes time, though.

>> >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations
of
>> >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit,
>> >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

>> I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are
>> mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :)

>> However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings,
>> too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do.

>> But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me!

>> >For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used
by
>> >marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto
>> >Zandvoort and most of the other circuits.

>> >Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it.

>> As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from
>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

>> --
>> Greger Huttu

by **Tim** » Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:00:00

I'm gonna give that a go too, i'll e-mail you if i manage a decent set of
cams

by **Thorsten Ruete** » Tue, 20 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Greger Huttu schrieb:

> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

> >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
> >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or
> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

> There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul
> Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect
> the cameras. It takes time, though.

> >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of
> >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit,
> >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

What do you mean? Blimp cams are not exactly fantasy cams, I think.Maybe you
would like to check out my cam files, they are up at the
US PITS web site. Let me know what you think about them.
I *am* interested in doing cams that use no zoom and are located
at the historic spectator areas, but you won't find them in my cam
scripts, yet. I hope I find the time to do some.

-Thorsten Rueter

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 21 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Thorsten, I wasn't slighting your efforts. Sorry if that was the inference.
I simply meant camera locations as applicable to the time period.........and
as far as I'm aware no blimps or helicopters (apart from Frankenheimers
camera platforms in "Grand Prix") were used as camera locations for any
normal film or television "footage".
I'd just like to see a selection of camera locations as seen through the
eyes of a cameraman, official or spectator of the period depicted. I much
prefer long, wide-angle, panning views, because it replicates what we see,
rather than zooms and fixed-position shots.
It's just a personal preference and I certainly don't expect everyone to
feel the same.

> Greger Huttu schrieb:

> > On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

> > >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in
> > >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit?
Or
> > >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use?

> > There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul
> > Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect
> > the cameras. It takes time, though.

> > >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations
of
> > >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit,
> > >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

> What do you mean? Blimp cams are not exactly fantasy cams, I think.Maybe
you
> would like to check out my cam files, they are up at the
> US PITS web site. Let me know what you think about them.
> I *am* interested in doing cams that use no zoom and are located
> at the historic spectator areas, but you won't find them in my cam
> scripts, yet. I hope I find the time to do some.

> -Thorsten Rueter

by **Graeme Nas** » Wed, 21 Jul 1999 04:00:00

I'm working on a set of cameras like this for Kyalami at the moment.
Hopefully I'll have time to finish them this week.

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824

by **Thorsten Ruete** » Wed, 21 Jul 1999 04:00:00

You did not give the impression of slighting my efforts, at all.
(And even if you did: hey, I can take critizism :)

Concerning the 'blimp and heli cams': blimp cameras were used in that
period. In fact, they were crucial in broadcasting the races at the
Ring. GPL's Ring has more than a hundred TV cams, in reality they
usually only had around 50+ cams and relied *heavily* on the blimp.
Heli cameras I think are indeed an 'invention' of Mr. Frankenheimer.

Spectator areas: I remember talking to one of the Papyrus developers
(the now ex-Papyrus Mike Lescault) during the creation of GPL and I said
to him how cool it was if they including non-zooming cameras put at
spectator areas in addition to the TV cams. He said that they planned
to do so, anyway! Unfortunately we don't see them in the final product.

One problem in implementing realistic spectator area cameras in the GPL
replay system is that large areas of the track wouldn't be covered
due to missing areas on some of the tracks.
BTW. if you check out my Nurburgring cam file you will see *some*
'historically correct' cameras: the TV2 at the hump before the
Flugplatz right hander, the TV1 that shows the approach up to the
Karussell or the TV2 at the Bruennchen...
But they do use a zoom or are fixed.
To get really 'historical' one should not use a zoom at all, as
the cameras in the sixties had no autozoom or autofocus.
(That's why cars in footage from the sixties seem to drive faster
than cars from the nineties :)

Finally, if you want to try out Paul Hoad's editor be sure to get
the little FAQ that Edwin Solheim put on his website 'The Paddock':
http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock/
This will prevent some headaches ;)

-Thorsten Rueter

Bruce Kennewell schrieb:

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Great, Graeme!
Could I ask you please to e-mail me when the job is completed?

> >I'd just like to see a selection of camera locations as seen through the
> >eyes of a cameraman, official or spectator of the period depicted. I
much
> >prefer long, wide-angle, panning views, because it replicates what we
see,
> >rather than zooms and fixed-position shots.

> I'm working on a set of cameras like this for Kyalami at the moment.
> Hopefully I'll have time to finish them this week.

> --
> Cheers!
> Graeme Nash

> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
> ICQ# 11257824

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Thanks Thorsten, your information is most helpful. I didn't realise that
the 'Ring was televised at all, believing that it was too difficult (or
costly!). Who provided the blimp....was it Goodyear or a German company?

by **Thorsten Ruete** » Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Oops, sorry, I was handing out some misinformation with my
last post. While I was trying to look up the sponsor of the
blimp I found that there was no blimp used for the coverage
of the '67 GP. They *did* use a heli cam!
Comments on the quality of the pictures provided by the heli
were very positive in the German motoring press.

The coverage of the Ring race a costly event? No doubt, but
an awful lot of people were helping out without payment.
Most of all, the German army who provided manpower
and generators.

-Thorsten Rueter

Bruce Kennewell schrieb:

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:00:00

The information that you have given regarding the 'Ring is most interesting.
Is this in the form of a publication or available on the 'net anywhere?

rec.autos.simulators

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