rec.autos.simulators

Laguna Seca Problems

Steve DeLe

Laguna Seca Problems

by Steve DeLe » Wed, 10 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Hey everybody I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with their
car dissapearing in turn 8A at Laguna Seca because everytime I go around
that turn it seems to make car vanish.  Well thank you for your time.  


P.J

Laguna Seca Problems

by P.J » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00


>Hey everybody I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with their
>car dissapearing in turn 8A at Laguna Seca because everytime I go around
>that turn it seems to make car vanish.  Well thank you for your time.  

ya, that was one of the bugs that they told us about in the little
installation booklet that came in the original box.

Question: how did they miss the over-rev light bug? I noticed that
within 5 minutes of playing ICR2.

Terje Wold Johans

Laguna Seca Problems

by Terje Wold Johans » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00



> >Hey everybody I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with their
> >car dissapearing in turn 8A at Laguna Seca because everytime I go around
> >that turn it seems to make car vanish.  Well thank you for your time.  

> ya, that was one of the bugs that they told us about in the little
> installation booklet that came in the original box.

> Question: how did they miss the over-rev light bug? I noticed that
> within 5 minutes of playing ICR2.

Simple answer: No time. ICR2 just had to be released before Xmas '95.
I wonder how many copies of ICR2 has been sold. Less than 100,000 ?

I'll bet the Win95 version of the game will sell very poorly indeed.
Win95 really hasn't made an impact on the games market because
it really isn't that popular with the game community because it is
unstable and considered another annoying obstacle between gamers
and their games. On another note the game supporting packages that
was promised to make game development so much easier hasn't really
arrived until some months ago, eg. Direct3D.

Advice to Papy:
Don't beat/make any deadlines - it yields bugs galore.
It's better to be late than erroneous.

I wonder how long they have been working on the patch...

--
--- Terje Wold Johansen

--- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

Neil Yeatma

Laguna Seca Problems

by Neil Yeatma » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00



> Snip!

> Question: how did they miss the over-rev light bug? I noticed that
> within 5 minutes of playing ICR2.

The dumb thing is that it works in the "Arcade" view (F10)..it shows
your RPM's in text, and goes red when they're too high...

--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..


       Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Robin Chu

Laguna Seca Problems

by Robin Chu » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00

then again, Terje, if Papyrus wanted bug free programming, they might end
up delaying ICR2.x as long as Geoff Crammond has had to delay World
Circuit II/F1GP2 --- right now, about 6 months!

-r

--
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Terje Wold Johans

Laguna Seca Problems

by Terje Wold Johans » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00


> then again, Terje, if Papyrus wanted bug free programming, they might end
> up delaying ICR2.x as long as Geoff Crammond has had to delay World
> Circuit II/F1GP2 --- right now, about 6 months!

Maybe. You see, the deadlines set for games are as restrictive as
in the old days while the actual process of making a game/sim has
increased in complexity no end.
That's one of the reasons we are seeing more and more products
with a lot of bugs in it.
If this trend continues the costumers and ultimately the people
and the companies behind the products will suffer greatly.

That's why I am very disappointed in Papyrus. On another note ICR2
as it is now has provided me with many quality moments.
But it is ultimately a let down because Papyrus hasn't released a
patch. If they would like to keep me happy I would have liked
to see a patch released every third month or so until the sim
worked as promised. This has not happened. A lot of people are
not happy because of this.

One reason that the patch has been delayed is the forthcoming release
of ICR2 for Win95. In my estimate they don't want people to have a
working version for DOS before the Win95 version is released.
Economics. Understandable but nevertheless regrettable.

Btw I remember a post by someone that said that the patch
was ready to ship but they did not know exactly how they were going
to do it. I may be mistaken about the originator of the post,
who I think was Rick Genter of Papyrus, but I am 100% sure I read it
here in r.a.s.

--
--- Terje Wold Johansen

--- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

RickGent

Laguna Seca Problems

by RickGent » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00


You are incorrect. The "patch" is not ready to ship and probably will not
be until the Windows 95 version is ready to ship.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Terje Wold Johans

Laguna Seca Problems

by Terje Wold Johans » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00



> Wold Johansen) writes:

> >Btw I remember a post by someone that said that the patch
> >was ready to ship but they did not know exactly how they were going
> >to do it. I may be mistaken about the originator of the post,
> >who I think was Rick Genter of Papyrus, but I am 100% sure I read it
> >here in r.a.s.

> You are incorrect. The "patch" is not ready to ship and probably will not
> be until the Windows 95 version is ready to ship.

> Rick Genter

But the Win95 version of ICR2 will not be out in June, right?
I know that all the DirectXX packages from Microsoft is either
at the beta stage or just made the final release stage(eg. DirectDraw).
That must affect the schedule of ICR2.

Btw do you fear that if you release the "patch" for DOS,
which seems to me to be an extensive revision by the way,
prior to the Win95 version the patch will affect its sales?

--
--- Terje Wold Johansen

--- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

RickGent

Laguna Seca Problems

by RickGent » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00


The Windows 95 version of IndyCar Racing II is shipping in June. It does
not use Direct3D, but it does use DirectDraw, DirectSound and DirectInput.

No, we do not "fear that if we release the 'patch' for DOS...the patch
will affect its sales"? The Windows 95 version is being made available to
DOS purchasers as a "patch" as well. There are people who will purchase
the Windows 95 version who would not purchase the DOS version.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Neil Yeatma

Laguna Seca Problems

by Neil Yeatma » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00



> Wold Johansen) writes:

> >Btw I remember a post by someone that said that the patch
> >was ready to ship but they did not know exactly how they were going
> >to do it. I may be mistaken about the originator of the post,
> >who I think was Rick Genter of Papyrus, but I am 100% sure I read it
> >here in r.a.s.

> You are incorrect. The "patch" is not ready to ship and probably will not
> be until the Windows 95 version is ready to ship.

> Rick Genter
> Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
> Papyrus Design Group, Inc.


Really Rick, I don't see why this is the case...ICR2 has been out for
what, five months?  I think you've slated ICR2 for Win95 for...June,
was it?

That then means that we will have waited 7 months (if you get the
Win95 version out on time!) for a patch to fix something that will
make ICR2 a complete package that we've alreay bought and paid for?  

That's ridiculous....

Within 5 months of the release of ICR, you had several patches out.

The main patch requirements for ICR2 seem simple:

1) Fix the yellow flag bug (most important)
2) Fix the silly overrev light on the dash (the code is already there!)
3) Fix the paintkit..or actually, adjust the bitmapping on the pod sides;
   the right and left sides aren't even, and that's what causes the
   lines to show.

And the "warping" problems that people have reported are secondary
to the above, IMHO.

These simple fixes *should* have been out by now, especially #1.  Yellow
flags are an essential part of CART racing.

If you've fixed these problems in the Win95 version, great.  However,
based on what I've seen in other Win95 games, I'll stick with my DOS
version, thanks.  

I expect ICR2 for Win95 to be a *really* slick GUI for car setup with a
graphics engine that's slower than the DOS one...and I probably won't
buy it.

....so fix the product I've bought!  Please.  Thanks for your attention.

--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..


       Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Michael E. Carv

Laguna Seca Problems

by Michael E. Carv » Sun, 14 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: The Windows 95 version of IndyCar Racing II is shipping in June. It does
: not use Direct3D, but it does use DirectDraw, DirectSound and DirectInput.

: No, we do not "fear that if we release the 'patch' for DOS...the patch
: will affect its sales"? The Windows 95 version is being made available to
: DOS purchasers as a "patch" as well. There are people who will purchase
: the Windows 95 version who would not purchase the DOS version.

Okay Rick, I know that you have to speak "carefully" if at all on
"future" Papyrus products, but. . .  Should we then expect some better
graphics speed if our video card/drivers support DirectDraw?  I'm still
looking for a few more fps from my ATI Mach64.  I was hoping that
SciTechSoft would be fixing the problem with the Univbe & ICR2.  But it
looks like they are as behind on their upgrade as Microprose is with
F1GP2, as well as Papyrus has been with a patch for ICR2.  (Sorry about
that, I know you have your reasons, I've just been patiently waiting
since November.   I hope you make your June date, it will make a great
birthday present for me.)
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

RickGent

Laguna Seca Problems

by RickGent » Sun, 14 Apr 1996 04:00:00

I expect ICR2 for Win95 to be a *really* slick GUI for car setup with a
graphics engine that's slower than the DOS one...and I probably won't
buy it.

....so fix the product I've bought!  Please.  Thanks for your attention.
<<<

The speed of the graphics engine is virtually the same as the DOS version;
it really depends on how well your video card is supported by UniVBE vs.
how well it is supported by DirectX. Some systems see higher frame rates
under Windows 95; some see higher under DOS.

I'm not going to get into a debate about how we schedule work, but I will
say that when IndyCar Racing (ICR 1) shipped, it was Papyrus' only
project. The same went for NASCAR Racing. With IndyCar Racing II (ICR 2),
Papyrus was/is working on six different projects at once. "Generating a
patch" is not a trivial matter, certainly not as trivial as people seem to
think. The only way we could produce a patch for the DOS version of
IndyCar Racing II without further slipping the Windows 95 and Macintosh
versions was to coordinate the fixes into the schedule, and that means not
being able to release the patch until the Windows 95 and Macintosh
versions are released.

The good news is that, so far, the Windows 95 version has remained on
schedule for a mid-June release (we haven't varied from the schedule by
more than a few days in 5 months now). We have a longer beta period
scheduled for the Windows 95 version than we did for the DOS version, and
we're not under the kind of pressure we were under for the DOS version
(though we are under pressure to release before the end of June). So far
we've managed to fix the major problems that have been found including the
traction bug and the digital/analog throttle disparity, but not the yellow
flag problems (I'm working on that next week).

And since you bought the DOS version, you don't have to buy the Windows 95
version. You'll be able to download a "patch" for that as well.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Jo

Laguna Seca Problems

by Jo » Sun, 14 Apr 1996 04:00:00


>I expect ICR2 for Win95 to be a *really* slick GUI for car setup with a
>graphics engine that's slower than the DOS one...and I probably won't
>buy it.
>....so fix the product I've bought!  Please.  Thanks for your attention.
><<<
>The speed of the graphics engine is virtually the same as the DOS version;
>it really depends on how well your video card is supported by UniVBE vs.
>how well it is supported by DirectX. Some systems see higher frame rates
>under Windows 95; some see higher under DOS.

Hi Rick,

I'm curious if you've yet done any testing of the Win95 version with
any of the 3D graphics cards, and if so how does it perform? e.g., Is
it faster than a fast Pentium without a 3D card?

Joe

John Wallac

Laguna Seca Problems

by John Wallac » Sun, 14 Apr 1996 04:00:00



As a follow-up to that, a workaround for that was released by Gerhard
Lingenberg to allow the guys doing carsets to release top quality cars.
Took him a couple of days - mayge we should ask him about the yellow
flag bug too...! Seems maybe quicker than waiting until June, July,
whenever.

Cheers!
John

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Michael E. Carv

Laguna Seca Problems

by Michael E. Carv » Sun, 14 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: You are incorrect. The "patch" is not ready to ship and probably will not
: be until the Windows 95 version is ready to ship.

Rick, the story about the patch being ready is based on postings such as
the following posting found on American On-Line:
---------------------------- Following from AOL -----------------------
Subj:  Re:ICR2 bug fixes ???
Date:  96-02-16 16:31:47 EST
From:  Papyrus2        

--

in a couple of weeks from now.

Steve,
Papyrus
---------------------------- End of AOL posting -----------------------

This posting came directly off of the Papyrus Technical Support Forum on
AOL.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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