rec.autos.simulators

I have downloaded GPL four times today, and each time, when I start to
get into the sim, the system crashes, and I am not able to enter.

I finally said***THIS and uninstalled the damned thing.

I will just wait for the demo to show up on a CD-ROM in a computer
magazine or something.

Another thing ------
    It seems you have to have a FAST CPU for this thing ----------
GEEZ ----- this reminds me of MICROPROSE ***

  UPGRADE and spend a ton of money so you can be wowed for a while.

  WHY CAN"T THE BRAINS BEHIND ALL THIS STUFF JUST DESIGN SOMETHING SO
EVERYONE CAN ENJOY THE SIMS -------- NOT JUST THE ONES WITHOUT
FAMILIES AND A LOT OF DISPOSABLE INCOME????????

   THIS ----------- is rediculous!!!!!!!!     Why should we have to
spend a thousand dollars every year or so to keep up with this when I
am sure there is a way to make this work on machines slower than what
they are saying it will.

   I am frustrated and fed up.  This BS has to end somewhere.  I have
two kids and a family to support.  I work for a living and hard at
that --------- but I certainly don't appreciate the fact that these
CHARACTERS that design this stuff keep putting it so far into
HYPERSPACE that you almost have to have a leftover NASA computer to
run it.

   There --------- I have said my peace --------- I will buy the sim
---------- but will probably have to shelve it for some time until I
can afford to upgrade my system ----------- AFTER I HAVE SUPPORTED MY
FAMILY FIRST!!!!!!!!!!

Hey,
Ferrari makes great cars, but not every can afford them....
I'd buy one, but don't have the resources... they're not for everyone...

doktorB

I am having same problem. Installs fine but I can't get by the controls
screen. It either locks up or goes back to windows

Wayne.

I think the game will play very well on a P200MMX with either a 3Dfx
card or a Rendition, both of which you oughta be able to pick up for $50
for their 1st generation of cards by the time the game ships, or sooner
(I've seen Rendition cards for $60 right now).  A 200MMX is a lo-end
machine these days - they're selling for $600-700.  And no, I don't see
how it would be possible to make a sim like GPL run on slower machines.
There's a heck of a lot of math going on in this one = CPU power
needed.  But a P200MMX ain't too extravagant for a game's needs, they'll
be less than $100 for the CPU in a coupla weeks.

I am having the same sort of problem. The demo installs fine but when
I run it I get a Invalid page fault in gpl.exe from gpl. I downloaded
twice and installed it 4 times. My system is a Cyrix PR200 49ram
Monster3D. I know the cyrix cpu is not that great but it should still
run. I also have a family to support so I upgrade mine a little at a
time cpu here motherboard there. Any help would be appreciated.

Jim

same goes for my installation.....
I have a Cyrix 6x86 MX PR 166 , 16M  , s3 V+

I couldn't have said it better... not to mention
that if it were for DOS it would have probably run
faster .... or even run ... lol

        As for having to update again for a $1000 or so to race this
fantastic sim,thats up to you. I have posted on several occasions that
I was sick of having to upgrade every year just to play the latest
racing sims. But the decision is yours. Right now I'm running a P166
with 48 MB of ram,a Diamond Sealth 3D 3000 graphics card and a Diamond
Monster 3d accelerator card. And I can tell you that the demo runs
great on my setup.

        I to have a family,and a house to support. And a job that
requires 50-60 each week. So I all too well know about bills and
scarcity of available cash for upgrades(not to mention a wife that
still thinks that a 486 system is just fine). Just remember,this is
susposed to be a relaxing activity to help us wind down from the days
fustrations. If you can't or don't want to upgrade some,then run what
you have. But you can upgrade one component at a time,and see a big
difference.    

        I'm planning on upgrading to a P233MMX cpu for $219,rather
than buying a Monster 3d ll right now. I'm sure that the improvement
will well be worth it. And if you need more ram,it's dirt cheap. I'll
be adding more. And when the Monster 3dll comes down in price,I'll
consider buying one then.

good luck,

Joel Willstein
#20 Castrol Ford

IVQ2690036

hoover
--

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I am a software engineer and a former race driver, who took physics in
college.  In my humble opinion, Dave Kaemmer is one of the great
software engineers in the world.  GPL's physics engine is a software
engineering marvel.  It is modeling an incredible number of details, and
doing so incredibly efficiently.  

For example, GPL models the inertia of the drivetrain components.  Put
the car in nuetral, foot on the brake, and rev the engine (if you don't
have separate brake and gas pedal axes, park on a level space on The
Long Straight, after the loop).  You will see the chassis rock from side
to side as you blip the throttle.  This is due to the inertia of the
engine and drivetrain.  Now push in the clutch (keypad Del key).  When
you blip the throttle, the engine will reach readline a little quicker.
That's because the engine now does not have to accelerate the inertia of
the transmission input shaft.

This kind of attention to detail permeates the physics engine.  It is
simply incredible.  I believe that few software engineers or physicists
in the world possess the combination of skills necessary to make this
happen correctly.  

Furthermore, I believe that even fewer possess the skills to make this
happen with the performance necessary to run on computers that are
widely available today.  Dave has worked very hard to make the GPL
physics engine efficient enough to work acceptably on the machines of
today, and the multitude of posts in this newsgroup show quite clearly
that his efforts have been a resounding success.  

The amount of calculations going on in GPL every second boggles the
mind.  Dave completely recalculates *everything* going on in the car -
drivetrain inertia, suspension movement, tire friction, tire rotating
inertia, chassis movement and rotation in all three axis, on and on -
two hundred and eighty-eight times a second (compared with around 30 hz
for ICR2).  Empirical testing showed that this was the minimum frequency
necessary to avoid oscillations.  Imagine the CPU power necessary to do
this, even with extremely efficient code.

Now add in the processing power required to construct the visual world,
calculating positions of track, landscape, objects, then drawing
polygons (in the case of the Voodoo Graphics and software-only
implementations) and shooting everything over to the 3D card (on
Rendition and Voodoo Graphics machines).  Other racing sims, with far
less sophisticated physics models, can devote a much greater percentage
of their processor time to dealing with graphcs.  GPL must belt out all
the graphics in the small spaces left between the all-important physics
calculations.

In my humble opinion, GPL is an engineering masterpiece.  

GPL is far from being another GP2, which could not run well with full
graphics on anything available at the time of its release and for years
afterwards.  GPL can run very well on an entry-level system available
today for roughly $1000, with the addition of an inexpensive (under
$100) Rendition 2x00 card.  Even many older machines like P-133's
(provided they have L2 cache) can be upgraded for a few bucks' worth of
memory, a Rendition 2x00 card, and an inexpensive AMD K6-200, and
they'll run GPL quite well.

I find this simply amazing.  

How can anyone complain about this??  Instead of berating the folks at
Papyrus, I say we applaud them loudly.

Eagle Woman

Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/

l8er
ronny

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          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
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       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

I agree with ya all the way Alison!!
I am amazed by the physics of the GPL demo, and am very pleased with the
detail and good framerates I am getting. I am not and have never been a
real race  car driver, but I have to think nothing models it as  closely
and accurately as GPL does. You gotta really work the wheel, gas, and brake
together constantly to get any kind of decent laps, and you'll know very
quickly when you've screwed up. IMHO, racing sims just reached a new level.
--
Don Burnette
I-65 Racing
Dburn on Ten
AOLL Iroc Series Administrator
http://pages.southtech.net/palmetto/aoll.htm

some great material snipped

I can't understand how so many people here overlook this "little"
detail over and over again, both when judging the game's horse power
requirements and how good a driving sim it will be eventually. Even
F1RS is fast and smooth on a P133/3Dfx machine if you are driving
alone, and I wouldn't be surprised if GP2 was too.
It's the 20+ other cars that really can destroy the frame rate for
lower end machines, and it still remains to be seen if this will be
the case for GPL (the game, NOT the demo).

I predict that the MINIMUM machine spec will be a P200 and a 3Dfx or
Rendition card.  This won't be stated on the box, since the publishers
almost always understate the spec requirements.

Marc.
--------
To replay via e-mail, remove "spam." from the beginning
of my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

Btw, I'm still indecisive about upgrading to a GPL worthy machine or buying
a race-prep.
engine for my roadcar, What would you do? ;-)

Cheers!

Harald

Unfortunately, Alison, the problem rests with those who really couldn't give
a rats arse about the incredible physics that have gone into creating the
"engine" for this sim.  To these people, if the car cannot be driven fast,
imediately, without the player having to undergo a learning process then the
sim is "wrong" and Papyrus (or any developer for that matter) haven't the
faintest idea of what they are on about.

A friend of mine who test drives V8 Touring Cars here in Oz has stated that
the "feel" of GPL is "awesome".
Now, he should damn well know what he's talking about as far as I'm
concerned.