rec.autos.simulators

by **John Simmon** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:15:13

> > "John Simmons" wrote...
> > > Nothing? Nobody wants to comment?

> > Well, what's there to say? -We wuz robbed, bud... ;-(

> > That said, I think I was a bit harsh on Colin at the time. Ok, he was
> > following a bit too close for online purposes, but from my replay it
> appears
> > as though he did make an effort to avoid the accident once he'd gotten
> > caught out by my braking point (which was exactly where I'd intended and,
> > IMO, had to be in order to make the pass on JLe). One of those racing
> deals.

> > In contrast, again: from my point of view, JayMo's involvements with you
> and
> > Brian appear more indicative of impatience/red mist driving.

> > BTW Brian, 't was me who you collected coming down off the wall, Eldred
> > passed unhindered. Not stopping the car and switching to roof cam before
> > coming down onto the racing line was a mistake, IMO. Then again...
> anything
> > that could be crumpled/messed up on my car, already was, so no big deal.

> > Jan.
> > =---

> Yes, (I'm Jaymo) B.Farmer, I got in the back of you. My fault. I tried,
> though, to change lines at the last minute. Yes I'm agressive, but that is
> certainly no excuse for getting in the back of someone. I do my best to stay
> clean and hold my line, and I make mistakes. John Simmons, I looked at the
> replay (as any of you can) and still state I held my line, and it is your
> responsiblity to be sure of being clear before coming down. This is a clear
> rule, and breaking it will result in a wreck. The replay (on my side) shows
> this was YOUR mistake John Simmons. I don't know what your side shows, or if
> you'll even read this post, but if it shows the same as my side, you are
> being very unfair.

First, I was driving the same line I had for the previous 78 laps (of
which you were directly behind me for at least 10.

You knew you didn't have the room to pass clean, yet you pressed the
issue. You were overly aggressive considering the point we were at in
the race. I did not suddenly come down on you, and my spotter didn't
say anything about a car being low (I have the spotter turned on to
"full", too).

If you check the rest of the replay, you'll see that I freely gave room
to anyone that was under me, and I also backed off aon a couple of
passes to prevent problems, and am not one to close the door on people
that are clearly on my inside.

In my view, you were the one at fault. Just take it down a notch and
drive with a little more common sense.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
RASCAR Roster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Bejeezu** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:19:09

Didn't do you any good though did it,*** head.

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:21:43

I see nothing wrong with being aggressive as long as you know your
limitations.We all make mistakes on occasion and hopefully most will learn
from their mistakes. I think being aggressive is a nessecity if you want to
win races on a consistent basis and in my opinion that is the only reason to
race. Between a driver like Mark Martin or Dale Jr I will always take a Jr
because he makes racing more exciting.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> > "John Simmons" wrote...
> > > Nothing? Nobody wants to comment?

> > Well, what's there to say? -We wuz robbed, bud... ;-(

> > That said, I think I was a bit harsh on Colin at the time. Ok, he was
> > following a bit too close for online purposes, but from my replay it
> appears
> > as though he did make an effort to avoid the accident once he'd gotten
> > caught out by my braking point (which was exactly where I'd intended
and,
> > IMO, had to be in order to make the pass on JLe). One of those racing
> deals.

> > In contrast, again: from my point of view, JayMo's involvements with you
> and
> > Brian appear more indicative of impatience/red mist driving.

> > BTW Brian, 't was me who you collected coming down off the wall, Eldred
> > passed unhindered. Not stopping the car and switching to roof cam before
> > coming down onto the racing line was a mistake, IMO. Then again...
> anything
> > that could be crumpled/messed up on my car, already was, so no big deal.

> > Jan.
> > =---

> Yes, (I'm Jaymo) B.Farmer, I got in the back of you. My fault. I tried,
> though, to change lines at the last minute. Yes I'm agressive, but that is
> certainly no excuse for getting in the back of someone. I do my best to
stay
> clean and hold my line, and I make mistakes. John Simmons, I looked at the
> replay (as any of you can) and still state I held my line, and it is your
> responsiblity to be sure of being clear before coming down. This is a
clear
> rule, and breaking it will result in a wreck. The replay (on my side)
shows
> this was YOUR mistake John Simmons. I don't know what your side shows, or
if
> you'll even read this post, but if it shows the same as my side, you are
> being very unfair.

> Thank you,
> Steve K.

by **Eldre** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:32:17

>John, I checked the replay after seeing the chat at the end of the race, &
>saw
>that the same driver punted me earlier in the race, ~ lap 37 or so. At the
>time, altho a little po'ed after being hit twice from behind in turn 1, I
>shrugged it off & kept going. (sorry to Eldred for coming down off the wall
>in
>front of you, hood was crumpled up & couldn't see ya coming & thought every1
>was
>by) :-(

That's one of the hazards of being so slow. Everyone thinks the field has gone
by already. I've had that happen SEVERAL times in various sims... :(

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research. The
walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my
webpage.

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:32:16

>> It was good for me until the end when the guy running 3rd punted me at
>> the end of lap 79. I didn't even so much as scrape the wall for the
>> entire race, and ended up in the wall and finishing 8th.

>> This makes five RASCAR races where I was running in the top 5 at the
>> end, but that ended badly for me because of someone else's mistake.

>Maybe you should try and get out of the way of the faster cars, loser.

Excuse me?!? The passing car has the responsibility of making a safe pass.
The only cars that need to 'get out of the way' are lappers.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research. The
walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my
webpage.

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Steve K** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:56:30

I agree. Sorry you lost positions.

Steve K.

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:31:55

says...

> > "

> > Nice attitude! If the faster car can't pass, it's the faster car's
> > problem.

> > Couldn't attend the race yesterday, I was attending a wedding. Hope to
> > be there next time.

> Yes and no in oval racing. What goes around literally comes around there
> <G> Someone makes it hard for an obviously faster car to pass, that same
> faster car usually repays the "favor" at some point.

If he had been obviously/significantly faster, I would have let him by
(and everyone here knows that). I didn't feel that his lap speeds were
that much different from mine, and indeed, he overdrove a couple fo the
turns a few times before he eventually punted me.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:39:48

One thing that has to remembered in the N2002 modeling the draft is much
more prevelant. Just because you can draft up on a car doesn't mean you are
faster. I would suggest one thing though, if a car is pressuring you then
let them by. Thats the best way to find out who has the better car.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> says...

> > > "

> > > Nice attitude! If the faster car can't pass, it's the faster car's
> > > problem.

> > > Couldn't attend the race yesterday, I was attending a wedding. Hope to
> > > be there next time.

> > Yes and no in oval racing. What goes around literally comes around
there
> > <G> Someone makes it hard for an obviously faster car to pass, that
same
> > faster car usually repays the "favor" at some point.

> If he had been obviously/significantly faster, I would have let him by
> (and everyone here knows that). I didn't feel that his lap speeds were
> that much different from mine, and indeed, he overdrove a couple fo the
> turns a few times before he eventually punted me.

> --
> =========================================================
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
> http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

by **John Pancoas** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:56:45

Exactly Mike. Fwiw John, my post wasn't meant to apply/comment on your
incident.

John

> One thing that has to remembered in the N2002 modeling the draft is much
> more prevelant. Just because you can draft up on a car doesn't mean you
are
> faster. I would suggest one thing though, if a car is pressuring you then
> let them by. Thats the best way to find out who has the better car.

> --
> Mike Grandy
> www.precision-racing.com

> > says...

> > > > "

> > > > Nice attitude! If the faster car can't pass, it's the faster car's
> > > > problem.

> > > > Couldn't attend the race yesterday, I was attending a wedding. Hope
to
> > > > be there next time.

> > > Yes and no in oval racing. What goes around literally comes around
> there
> > > <G> Someone makes it hard for an obviously faster car to pass, that
> same
> > > faster car usually repays the "favor" at some point.

> > If he had been obviously/significantly faster, I would have let him by
> > (and everyone here knows that). I didn't feel that his lap speeds were
> > that much different from mine, and indeed, he overdrove a couple fo the
> > turns a few times before he eventually punted me.

> > --
> > =========================================================
> > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> > RASCAR Roster
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > =========================================================

by **Edward** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:57:20

Eldred, don't argue with an idiot, you'll just hurt your brain trying to
think like him.

--
Edward
Commissioner
MARA Middle-Aged Racers Association

by **Ed Solhei** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:37:07

I have not seen the replay yet, nor did I see the accident on track...
('damn pitstop cost me a whole bunch of spots..) - but
I just wanted to say (this is not directed at anyone in particulare btw)
that if you close the door - you face the risk.... and it's your
responsibility to give the guy *inside* some space.. Just like it's the guy
who's down low responsibility to take such a narrow line that he give the
car outside room to play in so he dont have to visit the wall.

Racing is just like any other relationship; you give some - you take some.

Having said that - I think the Michigan race was quite good/clean...
Although we still seem to have some problems "at the back of the
grid"........

--
ed_

by **Jan Verschuere** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:48:05

I've seen the replay, IMO there was no "inside" in this case.

Other relationships suffer from breakdowns in communication too. <g>

Especially when you quick guys place yourselves there through "ingenious"
pitstop strategies.

Late pitstop vs staying out there... 0 - 2. ;-))

Jan.
=---

by **B.Farme** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:59:24

Jan, I checked the replay again, & saw that I got you the same way I got Eldred
after being punted the 1st time. Roof cam wouldn't have helped this time (tho I
will try to remember to use it in the future), 'cause after I had committed to
turning around & coming down the track, both your car & Eldreds car suddenly
appeared closing fast after what appeared to be a clear track (both times I was
facing the wrong way, up against the wall).

That said, if I had any sense, I would have looked at the F2 screen instead of
depending just on visuals. My bad, & I apologize to you as well. :-(

A little humility is due here, for what I did was no less disruptive to
another's race than what I was originally upset about, & *I* did the same thing
wrong twice in the same race. :-(

People in glass houses...

Brian

by **B.Farme** » Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:47:31

Steve, I consider myself a more conservative racer than some, & will generally
let a noticeably faster car by ( and you were noticeably faster), esp. early on
in a race.

Just b4 our mishap, I suspected that I was slower when by myself because of aero
damage, but was able to keep up w/ the cars ahead because of the draft (indeed,
I was gaining & could have used you to get by them). I didn't want to lose the
draft, & so was waiting for a chance to let you by that wouldn't cost me any
time. In hindsight, I should have made that clear to you, but I can't drive &
type (tho I can chew gum) at the same time.

A little more patience on both our parts would have avoided a wreck, & points
out a problem with a structure such as Rascar. Inexperience w/ each other
(i.e., not knowing who is aggressive & who is conservative), leads me to be more
conservative until I can figure out what the other guy is going to do.

I make mistakes myself, & am in no position to criticize you (see reply to Jan
earlier in this thread), as long as we can agree to learn from our mistakes. No
hard feelings on my part, I was just venting a little (my lpi has dropped
considerably since starting to race w/Rascar <sigh>)

I still like the concept of RASCAR, & feel that a public sharing of critcisims
*and* kudos will result in a better time for all At least I hope so.

See ya next week.

Brian

by **Richard** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:11:57

Maybe you should try and get out of the way of the faster cars, loser.
-----------------------------------------

I see our troll is back. lol

ZZ

rec.autos.simulators

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