rec.autos.simulators

by **Ian** » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:19:03

Sure they can, they just get to drive real ones too ;)

I rarely drive simulated NASCAR racecars never mind the real thing, not
enough right turns for my liking <G> It does make a refreshing change from
time to time though :)

I know a lot of people want a save race feature, and I agree with their
reasoning for it, but Papy for whatever reason chose not to provide it in
N4. So I stand by my original statement that it's not a bug but a design
fact / feature.

--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:21:06

Remember, N4 is more closely related to GPL than N3 or N2. And fwiw...
GPL doesn't have a race save, Nascar Heat--another 6 degree of freedom
sim--also doesn't have a race save. I would think there has got to be a
reason...perhaps the sheer size of the saved file would be it...but that is
just a hunch.

That is one of the area's where Nascar Heat has the advantage. You can
run a 50% race or less, but you can increase the fuel usage and tire wear so
you still have to pitstop just like it was a full length race. This gives
you back the race strategy that is so vital to oval racing.

Somethings the programmers can do...some things they are NOT ALLOWED to do
by the bean counters. Usually given time tho..most copy protections can
be defeated but adding a feature like a save game is pretty much impossible
by the private users.
have fun...good luck
dave henrie

> Cheers,
> Gary

> > That's worse than a bug, that's a complete brain-fade.

> > "Ian P" wrote
> > > It wasn't a bug, it was never designed to have a save race feature.

by **Don Burnett** » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:04:39

Seems to me to only be an issue to a very few, perhaps if there had been
more of an outcry for it on the newsgroups and Sierra's forum, it might have
been addressed.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

by **Don Burnett** » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:01:54

I don't think it's odd at all - many are getting away from save games .
Seems like the more intense the physics and graphics, the harder it gets to
incorporate a save game. Not to say it's impossible, I wouldn't know. But
the fact is - it's not there. Folks that this really means a lot too, that
make it just another game to them that won't get played much, need to
express their opinions in the appropiate forums.
Ya know, while that feature is not there - I don't recall Papy ever stating
it was something that could never be done. Maybe quite simply they haven't
seen enough feedback on not having it to make it worth their while to try
and implement something like that.
It doesn't matter to me, I probably wouldn't use it if I had it - but those
that are really passionate about it certainly should make their feelings
known about it.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> Odd, I think anyway, that save race is not there. I would think it's not
> that big of a deal to incorporate... seeing they likely have the ground
> work from it in N3 and eventually featured in N2 ... I for one miss it,
> and find it takes a lot from the my enjoyment. It is difficult to just
> get this typed with kids wanting, needing, and deserving my time.

> If you don't think the feature adds anything for your enjoyment...
> simple, don't use it, but some of us really need it in order to have time
> for a race long enough for pitting, gas mileage, and tire strategy effect
> the race....

> Multiplayer mode and needing the CD inserted, has absolutely no
> importance to me, but, I'm still glad for everyone if their needs are
> satisfied. I only ask/wish the same....

> Cheers,
> Gary

> > That's worse than a bug, that's a complete brain-fade.

> > "Ian P" wrote
> > > It wasn't a bug, it was never designed to have a save race feature.

by **Don Burnett** » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:05:10

I've never quite understood the concept of accelerated tire and fuel wear. I
had Heat on my hard drive for a couple months, and never used it. Many would
argue they need a save race to allow them to run a full 100% race at their
leisure for realism purposes. What does accelerating tire wear and fuel
useage exactly accomplish in the realism department? Sure, you can set it to
where you have to pit 3-4 times in a race, but your pit window is a hell of
a lot closer than it should be. I want my tires to wear realistically, and
my fuel to use up realistically. Even if it means I only have time for a 40%
race and only pit once or twice.
Just of course mho,

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> > Odd, I think anyway, that save race is not there. I would think it's
not
> > that big of a deal to incorporate... seeing they likely have the ground
> > work from it in N3 and eventually featured in N2 ... I for one miss it,
> > and find it takes a lot from the my enjoyment. It is difficult to just
> > get this typed with kids wanting, needing, and deserving my time.

> Remember, N4 is more closely related to GPL than N3 or N2. And fwiw...
> GPL doesn't have a race save, Nascar Heat--another 6 degree of freedom
> sim--also doesn't have a race save. I would think there has got to be a
> reason...perhaps the sheer size of the saved file would be it...but that
is
> just a hunch.

> > If you don't think the feature adds anything for your enjoyment...
> > simple, don't use it, but some of us really need it in order to have
time
> > for a race long enough for pitting, gas mileage, and tire strategy
effect
> > the race....

> That is one of the area's where Nascar Heat has the advantage. You can
> run a 50% race or less, but you can increase the fuel usage and tire wear
so
> you still have to pitstop just like it was a full length race. This gives
> you back the race strategy that is so vital to oval racing.

> > Multiplayer mode and needing the CD inserted, has absolutely no
> > importance to me, but, I'm still glad for everyone if their needs are
> > satisfied. I only ask/wish the same....

> Somethings the programmers can do...some things they are NOT ALLOWED to
do
> by the bean counters. Usually given time tho..most copy protections can
> be defeated but adding a feature like a save game is pretty much
impossible
> by the private users.
> have fun...good luck
> dave henrie

> > Cheers,
> > Gary

> > > That's worse than a bug, that's a complete brain-fade.

> > > "Ian P" wrote
> > > > It wasn't a bug, it was never designed to have a save race feature.

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:39:49

Well you CAN run a full race. But sims like SCGT and NH allow you to time
compress the race into a smaller window...You can still have your pit
strategies and
such, and it doesn't take all day...it's not a perfect solution, but it is
an option.
dave henrie

> I've never quite understood the concept of accelerated tire and fuel wear.
I
> had Heat on my hard drive for a couple months, and never used it. Many
would
> argue they need a save race to allow them to run a full 100% race at their
> leisure for realism purposes. What does accelerating tire wear and fuel
> useage exactly accomplish in the realism department? Sure, you can set it
to
> where you have to pit 3-4 times in a race, but your pit window is a hell
of
> a lot closer than it should be. I want my tires to wear realistically, and
> my fuel to use up realistically. Even if it means I only have time for a
40%
> race and only pit once or twice.
> Just of course mho,

> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.

> > > Odd, I think anyway, that save race is not there. I would think it's
> not
> > > that big of a deal to incorporate... seeing they likely have the
ground
> > > work from it in N3 and eventually featured in N2 ... I for one miss
it,
> > > and find it takes a lot from the my enjoyment. It is difficult to
just
> > > get this typed with kids wanting, needing, and deserving my time.

> > Remember, N4 is more closely related to GPL than N3 or N2. And
fwiw...
> > GPL doesn't have a race save, Nascar Heat--another 6 degree of freedom
> > sim--also doesn't have a race save. I would think there has got to be a
> > reason...perhaps the sheer size of the saved file would be it...but that
> is
> > just a hunch.

> > > If you don't think the feature adds anything for your enjoyment...
> > > simple, don't use it, but some of us really need it in order to have
> time
> > > for a race long enough for pitting, gas mileage, and tire strategy
> effect
> > > the race....

> > That is one of the area's where Nascar Heat has the advantage. You
can
> > run a 50% race or less, but you can increase the fuel usage and tire
wear
> so
> > you still have to pitstop just like it was a full length race. This
gives
> > you back the race strategy that is so vital to oval racing.

> > > Multiplayer mode and needing the CD inserted, has absolutely no
> > > importance to me, but, I'm still glad for everyone if their needs are
> > > satisfied. I only ask/wish the same....

> > Somethings the programmers can do...some things they are NOT ALLOWED
to
> do
> > by the bean counters. Usually given time tho..most copy protections
can
> > be defeated but adding a feature like a save game is pretty much
> impossible
> > by the private users.
> > have fun...good luck
> > dave henrie

> > > Cheers,
> > > Gary

> > > > That's worse than a bug, that's a complete brain-fade.

> > > > "Ian P" wrote
> > > > > It wasn't a bug, it was never designed to have a save race
feature.

by **Gary** » Sun, 29 Apr 2001 04:28:17

I recall back with N2 the lack of save race feature being a big deal for
many... an enormous amount of outcry to that fact.. And it was addressed in the
first patch... I've been away for the sim due to time restraints, four weeks
ago I picked up a copy of N3, was pleased to see the save race feature
included. I just assumed that they learned from the N2 complaints.

Didn't stick with N3 very long, a couple of weeks and off to N4. I knew at time
of purchase the feature was not included, purchased anyway, and was hopping,
thinking, it would be addressed in the patch release... seeing it was in N2 and
included in N3.

I've sent Sierra a email about my interest in the feature... but no reply... I
was surprised at that, I recall, again back with N2, they always replied and
answered in a timely manner.

I'm sure they watch this group... maybe those that are interested in the feature
should start a thread... along with sending as quick polite request for the
feature...

I've seen a few post over the past few weeks with other wishing to have it
added... I sure I'm not alone on this...

Thanks for listening,
Gary

> Seems to me to only be an issue to a very few, perhaps if there had been
> more of an outcry for it on the newsgroups and Sierra's forum, it might have
> been addressed.

by **Dave Henri** » Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:22:36

The Sierra that was around when N2 was new is NOT the same Sierra as now.
(sadly) and...
The code engine that begat ICR2/N2/N99/N3 is NOT the same as the GPL based
engine used by N4.(glad tho...)
dave henrie

"Gary"

by **studecham** » Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:56:04

I emailed Sierra shortly after I bought N4. Their reply was that a save
feature was "not in keeping with a pure simulation". I don't know why they
adopted this elitist attitude but I notice that a few folks here feel
likewise.

I think the lack of an outcry is due to the fact that most people who
bought the game play it online. A save feature is a non-issue for them. I
attempted to start a thread here about a month or so ago (N4 save race. ASK
FOR IT!) but only one or two people actually gave a damn. If anyone cares,

Unfortunately, those of us without DSL or cable who bought the game solely
for offline play are SOL. Maybe by the time N5 comes out I'll have a cable
modem.

Studebaker

> I recall back with N2 the lack of save race feature being a big deal for
> many... an enormous amount of outcry to that fact.. And it was addressed
in the
> first patch... I've been away for the sim due to time restraints, four
weeks
> ago I picked up a copy of N3, was pleased to see the save race feature
> included. I just assumed that they learned from the N2 complaints.

> Didn't stick with N3 very long, a couple of weeks and off to N4. I knew
at time
> of purchase the feature was not included, purchased anyway, and was
hopping,
> thinking, it would be addressed in the patch release... seeing it was in
N2 and
> included in N3.

> I've sent Sierra a email about my interest in the feature... but no
reply... I
> was surprised at that, I recall, again back with N2, they always replied
and
> answered in a timely manner.

> I'm sure they watch this group... maybe those that are interested in the
feature
> should start a thread... along with sending as quick polite request for
the
> feature...

> I've seen a few post over the past few weeks with other wishing to have it
> added... I sure I'm not alone on this...

> Thanks for listening,
> Gary

> > Seems to me to only be an issue to a very few, perhaps if there had been
> > more of an outcry for it on the newsgroups and Sierra's forum, it might
have
> > been addressed.

by **Gary** » Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:26:15

> I emailed Sierra shortly after I bought N4. Their reply was that a save
> feature was "not in keeping with a pure simulation".

Hmmmm, Arcade mode, Anti-lock brakes, steering help, traction control,
automaitc shifting to name a few... do they think are Indicative to "pure
simulation"

<shrug>
Gary

by **Larr** » Tue, 01 May 2001 05:44:54

Yeah, I'll trade in all of that "realistic" stuff for a simple controller
trim tab in the setup :)

-Larry

> > I emailed Sierra shortly after I bought N4. Their reply was that a save
> > feature was "not in keeping with a pure simulation".

> Hmmmm, Arcade mode, Anti-lock brakes, steering help, traction control,
> automaitc shifting to name a few... do they think are Indicative to "pure
> simulation"

> <shrug>
> Gary

by **Tim Mise** » Wed, 02 May 2001 10:45:56

"bored" is not the word. "summoned by the wife" is more accurate and real
nascar drivers don't have to deal with that during a race but we do! ;)

-Tim

by **Tim Mise** » Wed, 02 May 2001 10:51:15

LOL!! very good point!

by **Eldre** » Fri, 04 May 2001 01:01:13

writes:

>Doesn't seem to be a big deal for GPLers, and the real NASCAR racers can't
>save when they get bored either ;)

>--
>Ian P
><email invalid due to spam>

>> That's worse than a bug, that's a complete brain-fade.

>> "Ian P" wrote
>> > It wasn't a bug, it was never designed to have a save race feature.

Do you run full-length races in GPL? Just curious...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +27.07...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Larr** » Fri, 04 May 2001 05:50:31

Since it was a very good point......

I want my damned TRIM TAB!

Thank You :)

-Larry

> > Hmmmm, Arcade mode, Anti-lock brakes, steering help, traction control,
> > automaitc shifting to name a few... do they think are Indicative to
"pure
> > simulation"

> > <shrug>
> > Gary

> LOL!! very good point!

rec.autos.simulators

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