rec.autos.simulators

I also agree that working on setup is not something we like to do.
hell, its frustrating and unfortunately I dont believe any of us would
pay to have someone setup our cars...(well maybe a few would)
This is the first sim I have actually spent time working on my own
setups and that is because it seems the car is responding accordingly to
the changes i make. its actually becoming fun to work on them.

I also notice that my setup always needs work when I join another race
as weather (temperature) seems to have a drastic effect on the car and
its not just a matter of changing tire presures anymore.

My main point is that the more realistic these sims get, the more
frustrating its going to get for a lot of people.

It would be interesting to see if 20 *** simmers were taken from
this group and told to tell the F1 crews how to setup their cars and
then set on the grid for a race. Man that would be scary but it wouldnt
surprise me if a few actually ran not to bad after a few laps and
actually brought the cars home. hehe

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Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Well, the tracks go left when they go left in real life, and right
when the go right in real life, for the most part (the pit complex to
Magny Cours for 99-02 being an exception to this of course).

Now up and down is another issue I won't get into.  It is interesting
that the missing hills from Magny Cours and the rollercoaster from
Suzuka seem to have found their way into the Silverstone and Monza
track models, however.  I'm not going to speculate on the accuracy of
the camber except to say that the 2-3 turns that I'm aware of having
serious banking at Magny Cours are completely flat/banked the wrong
way in the ISI series.  Again, the chicane that was removed for the
race this year as well as the short blast to the pits and the final
turn are horrible in the F1 series.  The second last chicane is
practically flat in the ISI game when in real life there is a pretty
sharp hill there.  Monza?  Last time I checked while there is a small
hill between Lesmo 2 and Variant Ascari that resembles more of a
slight downhill run towards the old banking then uphill to the Vialone
chicane rather than some strange up and down rollercoaster ride that
totally obscures the entrance to Ascari.  Silvertsone's elevation and
camber inaccuracy has been covered elsewhere so no point in going on
about that, as it's a shitty track anyway.

Really in the end who cares.  I hate the tracks and wish there were
some GP4 track editing tools out by now so we could work on converting
those, but the tracks are good enough until then, and you can always
drive the excellent simbin tracks converted from Superbike 2001 if
need be.  I converted Brand's Hatch, Donington, and Laguna Seca to F1C
and all 3 are amazing to drive with the new physics model.  I'm
probably going to just replace the Euro GP at Nurby with Donington,
the Brit GP at Silver with Brand's, and the US GP at Indy with Laguna
since that will get rid of 3 tracks that are horrible both in terms of
real life and in-game modelling and replace them with 3 classics that
should be on the real F1 calendar anyway.

Jason

I won't argue that some of the tracks are inaccurate, maybe even majorly
inaccurate, but I think the majority are fine and I think it is silly that
people downgrade the game for a few inaccuracies in the tracks.  That's all
I'm really trying to get across here - of course we should want accurate
tracks but this game is just not the major disaster that everybody makes it
out to be, at least not as far as I can tell.

If people think I'm being biased or a fanboy then let me say this - I
thought Watkins Glen in NT 2003 was horrible.  Does that sound like a
fanboy?  The thing is, that's not the reason I didn't buy the game, I didn't
buy the game because I think one NASCAR game a year is enough for me, and I
already had the Papy NASCAR game for that year.  I probably will get NT
2004, even if Watkins Glen still sucks.  Why?  Because I think ISI has
achieved something unique and laudable with their game engine.  The physics,
the moddability, the high frame rates, the FF quality are all things that I
think they do extremely well and one or two inaccurate tracks doesn't ruin
that for me.  And again, it's just a freaking GAME.

AMEN

It's no Brands Hatch, granted, but I love the way the track really flows
from S/F right through to the bottom of the Vale, always easily above 100mph
from Copse, through Maggots, Becketts, Chapel, Stowe and down (not *up*,
ISI) into the Vale. If you spectate anywhere along the opening half of the
lap, you will be amazed at the cornering abilities of modern F1 cars.