rec.autos.simulators

Forgetting GTR for a moment, the GTL cars are more lively than the GTR
cars on the limit and the rFactor Zonda positively manic.

Debate will rage forever on RSC as to whether Doug Arnao's physics
should be revered and it is sacrilegious to even contemplate changing
them, however, the cynics amongst us will feel we have heard this is as
real as it gets all before.

There is no doubt though it is possible to hang on to some lurid slides
in GTR2 without drama and enter a corner with a bundle of opposite lock
at will. This won't do your tyres a lot of good in an endurance race but
for shorter sprints it certainly doesn't feel right that you can get
away with it. Leaping into a GTL Alfa then becomes a bit of a shock and
in my view doing it on a race track would be likely to end in tears...

The New Advanced Physics (NAP) aims to remove some of the forgiving
nature by making changes to the tyre and aero models.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

It certainly makes for a more lively handling car but contrary to some
opinion discourages the sideways driving style by punishing the driver.
No longer can you dart down the inside of the AI from way back and scrub
the speed off mid corner and block them on the exit, if you are abrupt
with the steering or pinched on the inside the chances are you will spin
so you have to be smooth.

A lot comes down to feel, whilst some of it will be down to real life
track experience I think an awful lot more is around interpretation of
feedback and how that relates to expectations.

Some will prefer it others not, just as I prefer a GPL Ferrari to a
Lotus and a GTL Alfa to a Falcon.

There is an article in this month Autosimsport www.autosimsport.net (the
patch is bundled in with the download too).

Before anyone asks I have no affiliation with the NAP mod makers nor
autosimsport...

Cheers
Tony

-Larry

Cheers
Tony

-Larry

It seems to need a very powerful server with lots of bandwidth.

At the moment pick up races seem to be hit or miss in terms of
connection quality.

I think it will settle into leagues who organise themselves either with
or without mods, or be used as the comprehensive offline sim it is.

Cheers
Tony

I bought GTR2 but haven't yet installed it. If GTR2 is as forgiving as the
demo was, i wouldn't call it a serious simulator. I find it very strange,
that the physics engine parametres are the way Doug Arnao describes them
being in the Autosimsport article. A wing just cannot generate any downforce
in 90 degree slide, but in GTR2 it will generate just as much as in a
straight line....

Currently the hotlappers are already doing overly fast laptimes when
compared to the real life times. In GTR1 they were little more in line with
real life, and the track modeling is better in GTR2 too, so.....

If the NAP has less-sticky handling, in where driver can make the rear end
come around if he really wants it to (you couldn't do that in GTR2 demo even
if you tried!), and if hotlapping it will result in more realistic laptimes
compared to stock-GTR2, I will definitively install it permanently to my
GTR2 install, when I eventually have the time to install and race it.

This is not to say that NAP is the final answer to the realism problem of
GTR2.

--
Mika Takala

Note that I had also been driving in the wet in GTR2 and I still got
more wheelspin with GTL...

The picture below shows a typical controlled slide in GTR2, turn in
early and drift it around. One take for the camera...

http://www.baldrick.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/gtr2_800.jpg

I really like GTR2 as a package, but I do feel that addressing the
driving on ice complaints of GTR has gone too far the other way - which
the NAP mod attempts to put right. If GTR's acclaimed reality has been
dismissed by its own developers then who is to say GTR3 won't have an
altogether new physics approach. I am comfortable to go with what I feel
is best and take the developers claims with a pinch of salt.

Cheers
Tony

Chad

Now that doesn't mean you can't drive the stock physics in a realistic
manner which looks spot on to what you would expect, but you can get
away with taking the odd liberty here and there, particularly against
the AI.

Cheers
Tony

a.) a car with 1250lbs of downforce (fast GT car) is going to be
*sliiiiightly* less likely to lock the brakes than one with 125lbs (max
GT-TC-76, of course most cars generate little downforce or even slight
lift)
b.) I find I get about the same amount of wheelspin in GTR2 as I do in
GTL, at least comparing them when exiting the hairpins at Donington.  I
get slightly more wheelspin in the Saleen/F550 than I do in the 911
RSR/906 in GTL, but of course it depends on the car.    Overall I don't
really find it surprising that 30-40 years of chassis development (and
better rated tires, altho GTL uses modern tires) would have resulted in
an improvement in traction out of slow corners.
c.) I have no idea how you're not getting wheelspin in the rain at any
speed, as I'm sliding all over the place if I don't use delicate
inputs.
d.) I doubt you're doing this, but I wouldn't compare physics using the
default setups.  The GTR2 defaults are incredibly aero-pushy and are
more likely to lock the fronts than the rears (the default setups in
GTR2 tend to have 10 wing - the Viper has 12! - and I personally can't
stay out of the green stuff with anything more than 7-8), whereas the
aero in GTL is car dependent and the brake bias in the default setups
tend to lock the rears first except for a handful of cars.  Being an
RFB'er, I find the 906 default setups completely impossible to drive
without cranking in a few % of forward brake bias.

Yes I can do that too.  I can do it in GPL, N2003, and GTL too.  In any
case I think you'll find it's not a particularly effective way to
drive, since you're wasting momentum sliding sideways (and bleeding off
speed) instead of keeping the car going forward (and maintaining
momentum).  Also, while the wings don't lose downforce, you can lose up
to half of the body's downforce (at least on the cars I've checked) by
doing that.

Same as the answer above really. Yes the old 65TCs are a bad comparison,
but again I would expect to need some degree of throttle control even in
the NGTs. I was a little disappointed to be able to push the throttle to
the floor so early, although this could be the case in reality it
doesn't feel involving enough for my perception of the power output.

The NGTs seem to be able to floor the throttle very early in full wet
conditions. I agree though in the GTs there is far more of a challenge.

  > Yes I can do that too.  I can do it in GPL, N2003, and GTL too.  In any

I just found it really easy to do in GTR2, in the other sims you
mentioned it seems much more challenging (for me at least) and to do it
in a real car at those speeds I would believe it to be quite skillful
(although as you say not necessarily advisable!)

Putting GTL to one side I find the stock physics lack a little life and
don't match my perception of race cars which may be flawed. It is very
much a feel thing from my perspective.

Cheers
Tony