rec.autos.simulators

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

Brett C. Camma

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Brett C. Camma » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:03:33

Peter,

I missed what your video card is.  Is it a Voodoo2?  If so, have you
tried these settings in your autoexec.bat file?

SET FX_GLIDE_NO_SPLASH=1
SET SSTV2_VIDEO_FILTER_DISABLE=1
SET SSTV2_FASTMEM=1
SET SSTV2_FASTPCIRD=1
SET SSTV2_VIDEO_24BPP=0
SET SSTV2_RGAMMA=1.3
SET SSTV2_GGAMMA=1.3
SET SSTV2_BGAMMA=1.3
SET FX_GLIDE_SWAPINTERVAL=0
SET SSTV2_SWAP_EN_WAIT_ON_VSYNC=0
SET FX_GLIDE_SHAMELESS_PLUG=0
SET SSTV2_TRIPLE_BUFFER=0
SET SSTV2_MEMFIFO=1
SET SSTV2_FORCE_TRILINEAR=0

I spent a solid week when unemployed digging out every possible
environment variable for the Voodoo2 and trying them in every
permutation to come up with these as optimal for GPL.  I run a Celeron
400 and have pretty tolerable FPS with most graphics options turned
on, although some of the 3rd party tracks kick it's ass, FPS-wise
still. <g>

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack


(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

Ale

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Ale » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:20:34







>>>It's getting better, though what I have noticed is the new found aches
>>>and pains that manifest themselves after a relatively short amount of
>>>driving.  Especially in my left foot where I'm still consciously trying
>>>to keep it just above the pedal when not using it.  That's why I need
>>>some extra d-i-y so that I can lightly rest it on the brake pedal and
>>>still know that its not actually going to depress it at all.  Joystick
>>>driving was much easier.  Just sit the thing on a flat surface on your
>>>lap and you're away.  Hardly any aches at all.  Wheel and pedals
>>>requires some major setting up in order to get the whole thing feeling
>>>comfortable.  It occurred to me early on that the hotshoes must have
>>>really good wheel/pedal setups - those that they are confident with -
>>>otherwise they would be spending too much time shifting their bodies or
>>>moving their feet about and not concentrating on what's happening on the
>>>screen.

>>Did you try to put your pedal unit on top of something? When I had
>>it on the floor my feet were getting tired too, after I've set
>>pedals some 7-9 inches higher it became much more comfortable.

>Gee, so many things to try out.  So little time. Hehe.  Nope, never even
>thought of that and indeed it may help.  At the moment though I think
>I've done well in just knocking up a unit that allows the pedals to feel
>more solid instead of all flimsy, as well as keeping it firmly in one
>position on the floor.  This box of yours could well upset the apple
>cart if I don't think it through properly.  Who knows?

>Mind you, the left foot ache is without doubt stemming from the fact
>that, because I haven't quite got everything 100% solidly in place,
>resulting in still some slight play in the brake pedal, I'm trying to
>hold my left foot in a rather awkward position about a quarter of an
>inch just above it.  With this in mind I had devised a way of making my
>whole pedal rig more solid, so that there will be absolutely no play in
>either pedal without some serious pressure.  This should allow me to
>rest both feet on the pedals when not using them.  Unfortunately, when I
>popped in to my local d-i-y store today to get what I was looking for,
>they didn't have anything that met my requirements and so I need to
>check elsewhere.  I know what pieces I want and am sure that once I get
>them it's going to work.  I just need to know where to get them.

There're few more ideas: I understood you have Ferrari FF wheel. On
my pedals I attached the spring between the front corners of the unit
and the pedal lever just below the pedal plate. If you choose right
springs you may get very nice and customizable feel.
With my old T2 unit I did another thing: attached it to the wooden frame
in vertical position making pedals work like in road car. Right after
I did it I've got nice improvement in lap times (I was playing GP2 then).

My next plan is to make reclined seat, otherwise my back gets tired
after few hours of racing:)

Alex
(alexti)

Peter Ive

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Peter Ive » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 03:40:24



<big snip>

Well, I found the pieces I was looking for at B&Q's over here and have
now knocked up a pedal rig that is good and solid - though perhaps a
little bit too much.  I really had to press quite *** the
accelerator to get full throttle so I have had to calibrate less than
all the way in order to avoid some real hard work getting the car up to
speed.  Mind you, I like your idea about making the unit vertical so
that the pedals are like in a road car.  What I am noticing is that my
right foot is slipping out of the best position for good feel after a
while and I'm having to reposition it during gearshifts.  If I try to do
this under braking I lose the car for lack of concentration. :(

My brake and accelerator footpads are different and so, if I did make it
vertical, then I would have to swap them over as well, which shouldn't
be too much of a major hassle, and because of the foot slippage issue I
think at some stage I'm either going to have to bolt something extra to
the accelerator to stop my foot from gradually sliding up over the thing
or do something like yourself and your idea seems much more classy.

Yep, seating is another area which needs looking into.  At the mo' I
can't use my real comfortable office chair because it is on castors and
slides about with all this heavy leg pushing, so I've had to resort to a
not so comfortable chair which really doesn't have the same under the
***softness or decent back support either.  I only just bothered with
it today and so haven't used it over any kind of prolonged period but
would imagine that only a half hour or so would leave me needing to get
out of the damned thing.

I don't know, I'm sure this is only meant to be a hobby.  :)
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Uwe Schuerka

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Uwe Schuerka » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 03:03:43

On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:22:49 +0200, Jan Verschueren
wrote...

Thanks fon an interesting read, Peter. Now would anyone be
interested in a "driving method" setting in gplrank?

cheers,

uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
Ever wondered what's wrong with the world?      http://bnetwork.com/
PGP Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Peter Ive

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Peter Ive » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 03:44:13



No, it's a V3 2000 and I have the latest drivers, but I believe it's my
k6-2 450 that's the main bottleneck because of its lack of a decent
floating point unit.  Unless someone here can prove me wrong, hopefully.
:)

<snipped v2 settings>

>I spent a solid week when unemployed digging out every possible
>environment variable for the Voodoo2 and trying them in every
>permutation to come up with these as optimal for GPL.  I run a Celeron
>400 and have pretty tolerable FPS with most graphics options turned
>on, although some of the 3rd party tracks kick it's ass, FPS-wise
>still. <g>

>Regards,
>Brett C. Cammack


>(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Peter Ive

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Peter Ive » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:00:48



No, I'm not forgetfull either, George. :)

<snip>

Actually Jan, this might take longer than perhaps my first attempts led
me to believe.  Although with my pedal setup feeling a lot better I've
managed to cure the major wheel lockups under braking, especially into
the like of Lesmo1 and Parabolica for instance, it's still taking all my
powers of concentration to avoid the car dancing off to either the left
or the right instead of just braking in a straight line.  And even when
I do concentrate it is still happening unexpectedly which is most
frustrating.

Possible reasons why this may be happening so far:

a) Now that I've changed the steering linearity it means that the dead
spot for keeping the wheel straight is a lot less than when I was using
the joystick.

b) I was a lot more proficient with straight line braking with a
joystick to such a point that I could do it without being aware of what
I was doing.

c) I'm just not braking in the best possible manner for use with a
wheel.  I'm still trying to use the technique devised from my joystick
days and it just doesn't suit.

d) These hotshoe setups are difficult to drive and I need to try some
more stable ones until I become more proficient.

e) A combination of those above.

Any other variables that I may not have thought of?
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Peter Ive

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Peter Ive » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:03:37



>On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:22:49 +0200, Jan Verschueren

>wrote...

>Thanks fon an interesting read, Peter. Now would anyone be
>interested in a "driving method" setting in gplrank?

Definitely!!  And while I'm at it, if I email you my gplrank name and
password, could you remove my old rank.  It's time to start afresh.
That old score of mine has been sitting there since July last year as it
is.
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Ale

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Ale » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:31:55







><big snip>

>>There're few more ideas: I understood you have Ferrari FF wheel. On
>>my pedals I attached the spring between the front corners of the unit
>>and the pedal lever just below the pedal plate. If you choose right
>>springs you may get very nice and customizable feel.
>>With my old T2 unit I did another thing: attached it to the wooden frame
>>in vertical position making pedals work like in road car. Right after
>>I did it I've got nice improvement in lap times (I was playing GP2 then).

>Well, I found the pieces I was looking for at B&Q's over here and have
>now knocked up a pedal rig that is good and solid - though perhaps a
>little bit too much.  I really had to press quite *** the
>accelerator to get full throttle so I have had to calibrate less than
>all the way in order to avoid some real hard work getting the car up to
>speed.  Mind you, I like your idea about making the unit vertical so
>that the pedals are like in a road car.  What I am noticing is that my
>right foot is slipping out of the best position for good feel after a
>while and I'm having to reposition it during gearshifts.  If I try to do
>this under braking I lose the car for lack of concentration. :(
>My brake and accelerator footpads are different and so, if I did make it
>vertical, then I would have to swap them over as well, which shouldn't
>be too much of a major hassle, and because of the foot slippage issue I
>think at some stage I'm either going to have to bolt something extra to
>the accelerator to stop my foot from gradually sliding up over the thing
>or do something like yourself and your idea seems much more classy.

> <snip>

For this problem I can also suggest a solution :)
I've glued a strip of material (kind of hybrid of *** and sponge)
across the Ferrari FF pedal unit, so I keep my heels on it. Not only it
provides necessary traction to prevent slipping but also keeps heels more
comfortable. For my vertical unit I use a pad of similar material
to keep heels on.

Now only if I could keep up with your lap times:)

Alex (alexti)

Ale

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Ale » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:34:51



It would allow to measure quality of the different
brands of wheels (and other devices) against each other
by comparing average ranks of GPL drivers

Alex
(alexti)

Peter Ive

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Peter Ive » Sun, 29 Apr 2001 03:26:12









>><big snip>

>>>There're few more ideas: I understood you have Ferrari FF wheel. On
>>>my pedals I attached the spring between the front corners of the unit
>>>and the pedal lever just below the pedal plate. If you choose right
>>>springs you may get very nice and customizable feel.
>>>With my old T2 unit I did another thing: attached it to the wooden frame
>>>in vertical position making pedals work like in road car. Right after
>>>I did it I've got nice improvement in lap times (I was playing GP2 then).

>>Well, I found the pieces I was looking for at B&Q's over here and have
>>now knocked up a pedal rig that is good and solid - though perhaps a
>>little bit too much.  I really had to press quite *** the
>>accelerator to get full throttle so I have had to calibrate less than
>>all the way in order to avoid some real hard work getting the car up to
>>speed.  Mind you, I like your idea about making the unit vertical so
>>that the pedals are like in a road car.  What I am noticing is that my
>>right foot is slipping out of the best position for good feel after a
>>while and I'm having to reposition it during gearshifts.  If I try to do
>>this under braking I lose the car for lack of concentration. :(
>>My brake and accelerator footpads are different and so, if I did make it
>>vertical, then I would have to swap them over as well, which shouldn't
>>be too much of a major hassle, and because of the foot slippage issue I
>>think at some stage I'm either going to have to bolt something extra to
>>the accelerator to stop my foot from gradually sliding up over the thing
>>or do something like yourself and your idea seems much more classy.

>> <snip>

>For this problem I can also suggest a solution :)
>I've glued a strip of material (kind of hybrid of *** and sponge)
>across the Ferrari FF pedal unit, so I keep my heels on it. Not only it
>provides necessary traction to prevent slipping but also keeps heels more
>comfortable. For my vertical unit I use a pad of similar material
>to keep heels on.

Nice one.  The simplest solutions are always the best.  :)
I'm almost having as much fun mucking about with the rig as I am playing
GPL.  I said almost.  ;-)

Hehe, things are coming along nicely and I've learnt a couple of
idiosyncracies of using a joystick compared to a wheel which should hold
me in good stead.  Firstly, I just did a 2.00.12 on only my 4th lap at
Rouen with my wheel (just needed to mention that <g>) - I've wiped all
my old joystick times and am currently in the process of just putting in
5 to 10 laps at each track so as to get a new GPLrank.  Only got Spa,
Silverstone and the daddy of them, yes the Ring, to go.  Should get
those done tomorrow and hope to post a new rank of somewhere in the
region of less than +50.  Not bad for the first week.  :)

OK, now about this joystick/wheel driving thing.  I was going to start a
new thread, but what the hell.  I stated elsewhere in this thread that I
was having some difficulty in keeping the car straight under heavy
braking with the wheel, something that never happened with the joystick.
I think I've discovered why this is so.

If you imagine looking down from above onto the top of an analogue
joystick which had a clockface super-imposed upon it.  Moving the
joystick towards 12 o'clock would allow acceleration in a straight line
and moving it towards 6 o'clock would allow braking in a straight line.
Now, in order to get maximum braking you need the joystick to be
pointing as near to 6 o'clock as you can which, as just so happens, also
means that you will also be braking in a straight line as well.  If you
only were to pull the joystick towards either 5 or 7 o'clock then you
will not get maximum braking, maximum braking only occurs at the 6
o'clock position.  And that is why it is easier to apply maximum braking
in a straight line with a joystick.

With a wheel you don't have that aide.  Braking and steering are 2
completely separate components of a wheel/pedal combo and so you can be
maximum braking and still have the wheel turned full lock to the right.
Something that is impossible with a joystick.  If the joystick was full
lock to the right it would have to be at 3 o'clock which would mean no
braking at all.  Because of this, I believe it is more naturally
difficult to maintain braking in a straight line with a steering wheel,
without a lot more practice than would be required with a joystick.

Secondly,  I noticed a tendency to oversteer through corners which I
have discovered comes from a fear of going too fast which has caused me
to back off the throttle completely.  This came to me when I was taken
the tunnel at Monaco for the first time and was so afraid of going too
fast I lifted completely and immediately the car dived towards the
inside of the corner and up the curbing.  It seems imperative to keep
some kind of gas applied in order to avoid this.  Once again something
that joystick driving naturally would make you do.  When joystick
driving, once you've done your braking you want to get off the brake as
you start turning for the corner.  Obviously, once you are off the brake
using a joystick then you must be on the gas 9 times out of 10 and hence
less chance of oversteer through corners.

It's still early days, but I'm sure these new discoveries are going to
help me keep the car on the track with more consistency and should also
result in improved track times as my experience grows.  Jan, if you're
reading this, perhaps a negative GPLrank within that first month after
all.  :)
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Don Scurlo

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Don Scurlo » Sun, 29 Apr 2001 04:00:08



You can delete your own account using: Delete an existing account* and
then create a new one, or as soon as you upload a new player.ini it
overwrites the old one.

Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.
GPLRank -12.11

Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site
http://gplrank.ringlord.com/

Peter Ive

GPL - from joystick to wheel (the early learning centre diary) - LONG

by Peter Ive » Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:11:00





>> if I email you my gplrank name and
>>password, could you remove my old rank.  It's time to start afresh.
>>That old score of mine has been sitting there since July last year as
>it
>>is.

>You can delete your own account using: Delete an existing account* and
>then create a new one, or as soon as you upload a new player.ini it
>overwrites the old one.

Cheers Don, uploaded new rank which puts me at position 1264 and a time
of +46.14.  Not bad for my first week with a wheel. :)  Managed to
scrape in a crash free second lap at the Ring which was enough, because
my botty was getting numb after having just done Spa and Silverstone.
Spa gave me the most headaches.  Took me 8 laps before I managed a clean
one.  I think I crashed at every single corner at some stage.  Anyway
Ring start of a conservative 8:53 and plenty of room for improvement
hopefully.  This time next week who knows.  :)
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.


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