rec.autos.simulators

I have seen a lot of posts slagging CART PR and I have to wonder if
these people are playing the same demo that I am. One post said that
the graphics were horrible in comparison to IC2 and N2. While I have
never seen the 3D versions of these two sims (since Papy refused to do
a 3dfx patch) but I have to say that I find the graphics in both to be
very dated. While Papy has set the bar for racing sims in the past I
think they are getting things wrong at the moment. I have not
purchased the BGN track pack nor SODA (want to talk about pathetic
graphics?) and will not lest the offending sims get a 3dfx patch. In
the current market the competition is so fierce that it is safe for us
the die-hard simmers to want it all. While Papy's games have been a
true wrench turners dream, they have suffered because they have not
been forced to up the standard at every turn. The setups and the car
models kept me up many a late night but graphically I was shaking my
head after N2.
Now if CART PR's physics model and engineering system prove to be what
they are lauded as then Papy is going to have to scramble to keep from
losing sales. I have only put in a couple days on CART and only on the
Laguna track so I am not ready to spout off about the physics but they
seem correct so far. Graphically speaking I have yet to see a sim as
realistic as this. My only gripe is that they couldnt milk a few more
FPS out of it by doing a Glide port. As it stands on my lowly 166 and
Monster 3D I get 15-18 FPS with Smoothing on medium detail and all
option but mirrors (which are cars only. That is not bad but 30 would
sure be nice.
I know that I will buy this sim the day it comes out. Unfortuneatly I
will probably be upgrading my computer soon after.

 VISIBLY LOCKING WHEELS?????? Where did you come up with that?

To all of you who've posted comments on CART Precision Racing:

1) Thank you!

*       Thanks to those of you who love the game, it's GREAT to hear
        you are enjoying it. We've worked very, very hard & it's
        an incredible pleasure to know you are enjoying it. I am very proud
        of what we've accomplished with our entry into the racing sim category.

*       Thanks to those of you who've slammed us as well. We genuinely appreciate
you taking
        the time to try our game and to type and post the feedback. We are
listening and we will
        carefully consider your feedback as we decide what to do now. Please keep
it coming!!

2) We are committed to being a long term player in realistic racing
simulation category. Your feedback (both the good stuff and especially the
bad stuff) will be used as we plot our course from here.

Please keep it coming.

Thanks again,
 Eric (Producer on CART PR).

Ditto! (or Xerox)

Hawker

I have the CART demo also and I dont have any problem with FR at all, it
runs silky smooth and very fast on my system with full detail. I have a
209mhz (oc'ed 166MMX) and a Diamond Monster and I have no stutter, jerks
or anything else, it simply flies so I wonder if some of the problems
could be machine related somehow?

Trev

% I have the CART demo also and I dont have any problem with FR at all, it
% runs silky smooth and very fast on my system with full detail. I have a
% 209mhz (oc'ed 166MMX) and a Diamond Monster and I have no stutter, jerks
% or anything else, it simply flies so I wonder if some of the problems
% could be machine related somehow?

(Trev don't get me wrong, this is not directed at you).

What the frig standard is "silky smooth"?  For years I have seen
reference to this frame rate standard and have yet to see it fully
explained.  For many people "silky smooth" has meant 12-14 fps without
any slowdowns or speedups.  I, for one, am in the racing sim thing to
race, not to attend a fashion show about the latest silky smooth
designer gown.  For me, the bare mimimum standard is 25 fps without any
"slowdowns" or "speedups".  For years, I ran below these numbers, but
now that I can run 27-30 fps, I sure as hell don't want to "race" with a
frame rate below 25.  Anyway, can't we come up with a more subject
rating system for frame rates than "silky smooth"?

[soapbox suddenly yanked out beneath his feet....]

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I would also like to state I played it on 2 P166's with voodoo's and I had
very good frame rates with the game on both systems. How do I get actual frame
rate numbers? Guessing I would say close to 30. The game is tough though, it's
all about braking, it's like a paradox of racing. Racing the fastest guy from
A to B. But it all comes down to braking which is a slowing motion. But this
slowing motion is your fastest way from A to B. Go figure.

Menu system is Monsert Truck Maonayse(sp) all over again, which reminded me...
Where da farg is MTM 2 that was promised to be shipped with DX5.0? Lord knows
that game needs a serious frame rate boost.

Q.B.M.

Just wait, somebody will ask you any moment to install the newest
drivers 8^)

l8er
ronny

--
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          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Not mandatory, just available in the competition.

Joe

I tried the ubiSoft demo but I came away less impressed than CART. One
thing about the F1 demo was it either didnt work well or at all with
my steering wheel (it has been a while). Also the graphics struck me
as cartoonish. I like the color pallete in CART. This is a big deal to
me as far as suspension of belief. I dont like driving around in a
carnival world. This is one issue I had with MotoRacer. The CART game
looks like a real world color pallete and the only other game I can
say that about is Janes Longbow (what more would you expect from Andy
Hollis?). I hope with the increased color depths available with 3D
acceleration more game producers will take the time to create
reallistic palletes. As for the chocolate surface, I cant comment as
it apppears normal to me. I run very dark and high contrast settings
though.

Beings as this is purely subjective, I have no idea if your opinion of
what I see on my machine would agree with mine :)!

Later :)

Trev

Trev

% Mike, I agree with you, one persons opinion of "silky smooth" could be
% quite different than anothers :) what I look for is a good flow with no
% visible "slide show" effect, things being drawn as I approach them and I
% suppose just a feeling of smoothness as though I was really driving as
% in real life going down the highway.

These are very important aspects needed for suspension of disbelief
when sitting behind the virtual wheel.  The other things that I
personally (subjectively) feel are important is a fairly consistant and
constant frame rate.  One that can maintain the same frame rate in
conditions with lots of graphics (or traffic) and in conditions without
lots of graphics (or traffic).  I also need a mimimum frame rate of
20-22 for control of the car.  This is a BARE mimimum, anything below
this and I can't suspend my disbelief while I struggle to control the
car.  However, my happy medium is at least 25 fps.  Then again I am only
truly happy when I have at least 30 fps and all Eye/ear candy turned on.
So far the only time I've been able to achieve the latter (with my
current equipment), is when I run older games.  Even the Rendition
version of ICR2 with all detail and all cars drawn/heard can't maintain
a constant 30 fps.  Maybe we can "coin" a subjective term for this latter
reference standard (30 fps constant, all detail, all sound).

% Beings as this is purely subjective, I have no idea if your opinion of
% what I see on my machine would agree with mine :)!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

   Also, comparing Laguna's, which is more accurate: ICR2's dips on
the backstraight (between T6 & T7) where the cars disappear from view
or CPR's view where you can see directly from T6 to T7?

   Put it into turbo mode and then you'll see FPS!  People think CPR
is giving them a sensation of speed...  When you've seen that, the CPR
demo starts looking like a rather lame graphics engine.

Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

IMO there is no comparison between the graphics in CART PR and those in
the Rendition version of ICR2.

The latter, to me, is of far better quality and realism.
CART PR, with smoothing "on", gives the impression that the only thing
to be smoothed is the track/dirt surface.  Anything with an edge to it
remains as jagged as before.

The graphics in the Microsoft product are just too "heavy"......there is
far more subtlety in ICR2 that provides a better ambience.  When we are
in the***pit the most imprtant thing is the track and any
middle-ground and back-ground artwork should be less intensive. Graphics
beyond the track and its immediate verges should be softer...we need to
know something is there to give a sense of reality but that is all.

ICR2 does this very well....probably the best of any racing simulation.

Try it yourself the next time you are driving and when you are
concentrating on your driving.  Your peripheral vision will "see" the
middle-ground and back-ground  but not nearly at the same "strength" as
the road and verges immediately in front of you.

--
Bruce.
(At home)