rec.autos.simulators

by **Harjan Bran** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every time
the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this time
I think it's quite hard.
IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it is
superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some
Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future
GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as
I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that true?
I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is
just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will
play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think,
well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I
mentioned earlier.
Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the
same dilemma?

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

If GPL is on your list...then you probably already know about the
in-the-cockpit problems that Geforces and Tnt's have. If you can
currently fix the mirrors etc then I don't see a problem with either
card.
I don't see HUGE improvements from either card. If you have a PII or
lower speed cpu, I'd first think about upgrading to somewhere around the
800mhz range before plopping down cash for another vid card.
dave henrie

> I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every time
> the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this time
> I think it's quite hard.
> IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it is
> superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some
> Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future
> GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as
> I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that true?
> I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is
> just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will
> play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think,
> well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I
> mentioned earlier.
> Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the
> same dilemma?

by **geps** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

GPL whit voodoo5 5500 and FSAA....
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/voodoo5/index4.shtml

and no unstable openGL patches... I have already made my next choise...

regards,
geps.

--
Driving
per gli appassionati di Grand Prix Legends
http://www.multiplayer.it/driving

by **Coli** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in
the performance, not the video card.
The Voodoo5 is undoubtedly better than the GeForce since it is Voodoo's next
generation card.
However, Nvidia also have a next gen card on the way, the Geforce2.
The new Geforce card blows away the Voodoo5 in all respects EXCEPT for
high-res performance with Anti-Aliasing turned on.
It's a tough choice. I for one will wait till they're both released and
properly tested beofre I make my decision.
Really, if you're going to shell out a ton of money for a new card, it's
best to get one that will last you the longest and will be equipped to
handle the latest games. No support for hardware T&L may turn out to be a
fatal decision for 3DFX.
So in short, the Voodoo5 is better than the GeForce but not as good as the
GeForce2.
...Colin

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

Looking at the 5500 pictures on the url that gep supplied, I'm a bit
disappointed at the banding in the sky, something I've noticed on other
sites as well. Still, this seems like the best choice of the new cards. If
it performs near to the new geForce, I'll go for it. When I got rid of my
last nVidia card it was to get rid of hassles and updated drivers every
other day. Yea, eventually I got the games to perform well on the nVidia
cards, but every time I loaded a new game, I kept my fingers crossed that it
would run on the card, and after about a month of fiddling it usually did.
Another thing to keep in mind is that nVidia drivers get slower as they are
updated, while in the rest of the industry new drivers mean faster
performance. I guess I've turned into a "plug 'n go" type of guy ;-)

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

by **Andrew** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

But for how long? That's the only thing that bothers me with the NVidia
cards (and only with GPL). They may offer an acceptable solution for GPL,
but that could change rather quickly due to the beta status of the GPL patch
and evolving driver updates. What most concerns me is DX8. If NVidia ships
new drivers that are required for new games and you need older drivers to
play GPL.... well, it can get a bit messy.

by **Andrew** » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

Everyone knows that the video card won't make you faster. It's the magical
"perfect" setup that will shave seconds off of your time! :)

by **David L. Coo** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

> If GPL is on your list...then you probably already know about the
> in-the-cockpit problems that Geforces and Tnt's have. If you can
> currently fix the mirrors etc then I don't see a problem with either
> card.

I have no***pit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win 2000...

--David Cook

by **mas..** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

>GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in
>the performance, not the video card.

(1) I compared my my V3-2000 in F1-2000 at both standard 143MHz and oc'd 166
MHz. No difference. This implies that it too is CPU limited, correct? BTW,

(2) GPL maxes out at 36 fps with my V3-2000 (std clock) at 1024 with no cars,
but is only about 25 fps from the back of a full field. *Probably* CPU
limited.

(3) Anandtech says he continues to use first-person-shooters (boo) for
benchmarking citing that many racing and flight sims are more CPU than
graphics limited.

(4) To me, the shots of GPL with FSAA were just not all that much better than
without. Admittedly looking at still shots. Some have claimed the
improvement is more apparent with motion, which I find counter intuitive.

(5) Conclusion, for *me*: It isn't clear that these cards make a big
difference right now. I wouldn't spend $200-600. Seems like that would much
better be spent on a CPU upgrade. When the sims start using some of the new
whiz-bang features, offloading the T/L to the graphics card, etc, maybe worth
a revisit. Then they'll be cheaper and faster. Again, if it doesn't benefit,
markedly, what I play now, why buy now?

by **Remco Moe** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

>(4) To me, the shots of GPL with FSAA were just not all that much better than
>without. Admittedly looking at still shots. Some have claimed the
>improvement is more apparent with motion, which I find counter intuitive.

FSAA will eliminate the shimmering, and thus be easier to the eyes.
Will it make GPL a better game, or will it make you faster, compared
to a V3-3000 card? Nope...

Agreed.

Remco

by **Olav K. Malm** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

> GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in
> the performance, not the video card.
> The Voodoo5 is undoubtedly better than the GeForce since it is Voodoo's next
> generation card.
> However, Nvidia also have a next gen card on the way, the Geforce2.
> The new Geforce card blows away the Voodoo5 in all respects EXCEPT for
> high-res performance with Anti-Aliasing turned on.
> It's a tough choice. I for one will wait till they're both released and
> properly tested beofre I make my decision.
> Really, if you're going to shell out a ton of money for a new card, it's
> best to get one that will last you the longest and will be equipped to
> handle the latest games. No support for hardware T&L may turn out to be a
> fatal decision for 3DFX.
> So in short, the Voodoo5 is better than the GeForce but not as good as the
> GeForce2.

I too will probably buy one of the two cards mentoned because my V3
3000 is hitting limits (and I need some new gizmos in the house :).

Some of my deciding factors for the Geforce2 vs V5 5500 will probably be:
- Mirrors in GPL with Geforce2

- FSAA with Geforce2 vs V5 in any game
- Prize

If GPL don't get the same performance with Geforce2 as my V3, then V5
it is. Then again, World Sports Cars will support T&L.

A very tough decision. The only comfort is that both cards are some
great piece of engineering, so any choice is really a good one.

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

by **Simon Brow** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

From what i've seen of various benchmarks on the net so far, the V5 seems to
be much better at doing FSAA. So if you want AA, maybe it's the V5 for you.
Heres a link to a pretty complete article about FSAA on the GeForce 2 GTS
and V5 which includes benchmarks -
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/fsaav5gf2/

by **Richard Walke** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

Not even with your mirrors?

And how do you install GPL on Windows 2000 anyway? Last time I tried, I
was greeted with a 'wininet.dll cannot be copied' error, and the game would
crash on loading. :-(

--
Richard.

"It's been a hard day's night, and I been working like a dog."

by **David L. Coo** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

I set my mirrors to every other frame ("2" I think) in my core.ini.
Regarding installation - I'm pretty sure I didn't have to reinstall GPL when
I upgraded my Win98 to Win2000. It just worked.

--David Cook

> > I have no***pit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win 2000...

> Not even with your mirrors?

> And how do you install GPL on Windows 2000 anyway? Last time I tried, I
> was greeted with a 'wininet.dll cannot be copied' error, and the game
would
> crash on loading. :-(

> --
> Richard.

> "It's been a hard day's night, and I been working like a dog."

by **Ken Bear** » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

Actually, almost *ALL* simulations are more demanding of the CPU and not the
video card.

And there are about *2* games on the shelf that use T&L at all, and we may
see a grand total of 5 by the end of the year, depending on how many Quake3
engined games come out. I've yet to see any sims claim any benefit from the
feature, and a mere handful that use 32-bit color for any real advantage.
That was last year's "killer feature" that was to be the death of the
Voodoo3 vs. the TNT2. A year and a few months later, it's still not that
big of a loss by not having it on the V3, IMHO.

The thing is, folks with GeForce cards and a 700-800 Mhz processor are
turning *off* the GeForce's T&L in the one game that really uses it -
Solider Of Fortune - since the CPU can do it faster and they even report it
looks better with the CPU doing the work. With the competition in the CPU
market, I don't see T&L being that big of a feature, especially not for this
generation of cards. And as I stated at the start, almost all sims are CPU
limited, not graphics card limited - so T&L would be of little or no benefit
anyways.

--
Ken's Sig 3.01

"Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
- Obi-Wan Kenobi

volksy(at)yahoo(dot)com

Go #43 and #44!

> GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor
in
> the performance, not the video card.
> The Voodoo5 is undoubtedly better than the GeForce since it is Voodoo's
next
> generation card.
> However, Nvidia also have a next gen card on the way, the Geforce2.
> The new Geforce card blows away the Voodoo5 in all respects EXCEPT for
> high-res performance with Anti-Aliasing turned on.
> It's a tough choice. I for one will wait till they're both released and
> properly tested beofre I make my decision.
> Really, if you're going to shell out a ton of money for a new card, it's
> best to get one that will last you the longest and will be equipped to
> handle the latest games. No support for hardware T&L may turn out to be a
> fatal decision for 3DFX.
> So in short, the Voodoo5 is better than the GeForce but not as good as the
> GeForce2.
> ...Colin

> > I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every
> time
> > the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this
> time
> > I think it's quite hard.
> > IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it
> is
> > superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some
> > Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the
future
> > GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as
> > I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that
> true?
> > I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is
> > just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or
will
> > play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think,
> > well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I
> > mentioned earlier.
> > Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing
the
> > same dilemma?

rec.autos.simulators

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?