rec.autos.simulators

You know, it would be nice if Tantrum would actually update their website
once in awhile!  I thought company websites were supposed to keep customers
updated about products.  Their website still says the game will be released
in April 1998!  Hmmmmmm...maybe I SHOULD go buy Burnout!  I was going to
wait.

Papyrus and Sierrasports aint much better.. Papy have displayed a "GPL
picture of the week" for some months now. AFAIK that page has been updated
**3** times... now that makes 'em weeks kinda long  - dos'nt it??

Sometimes I really wonder if these companies want to sell their titles or
not. But on the other hand.... no updates could also mean that they are
working like hell to finish the product on time and/or make the title as
good as possible... :)

Just my 2 cents....

Best,
Edwin Solheim
Check out The Paddock -  a legendary site...
for some cool Grand Prix Legends stuff and tips!
(http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock)

Cheers!

Marc

--
Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com

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quite qualify as a sim>

As someone who has had the opportunity to actually drive a Top Fuel dragster, I
can assure you that there is NO tachometer.  The engine RPM is gathered off of
the onboard computer and downloaded after every run.  As far as adjustments go,
I can think of only 6 or 8 adjustments that we have ever made on our Fuel car,
and they are:

Blower Boost
Nitro %
Spark (advance or retard)
Clutch (base pressure, counter weight, primary & secondary timers)
Angle Of Rear Wing
Nose Weight (with ballasts and fuel)
Minor Fuel Jetting Changes

If Tantrum incorporates just these settings, with any type of realism, which
are pretty much standard adjustments between runs, then you are talking out

"professional sim racers" blasting this game and it's not even out yet.  I
believe you will find that getting a 6000 h.p. Top Fueler or Funny Car down the
track with any consistency is quite a bit tougher than chasing each other
around in circles.  

Greg

I agree on the instrumentation. I drove an A/FD in the days before on-board
computers, and all we had was an oil pressure gauge. Shifting (Lenco 3-spd)
was done by ear and by seat-of-the-pants feel. As for adjustments, all I can
remember were: tire pressure, clutch preload, clutch centrifugal weights,
spark advance, cam advance (rarely changed), injection main jet, and
injection hi-speed bypass. The tires, clutch and injection settings were all
we messed with between runs, and the clutch was probably most important.

--
Doug Gordon
(Remove "nospam." from e-mail address)

Good info thank you!

I agree to a point. Being consistant at 1/4 mile with a high powered
dragster should not be easy.

--
Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Excellent post, points well made :)!!

Trev

<I find it kind of weird that when I watch NHRA on TV they almost rebuild the
top half of the motor between runs.>

First off, they don't "almost" rebuild anything.  Between every run the engines
of the higher budgeted teams are completely disassembled and in most cases
completely rebuilt with new bearings, etc..  Depending on the teams finances,
rods, pistons, and cranks are changed every 5 to 10 runs.  Doing this has
absolutely no effect on the performance of the vehicle, it's only done to
ensure reliability, and attempt to prevent breakage.  About the only part
change between rounds that really makes a difference, is the blower.  A freshly
stripped blower will  pump a higher volume of air, because the new teflon
strips offer a better seal, which will create more boost......which makes more
power.  

Yes, we've built many engines between runs......as described above, but I've
never had my car run quicker because it had new bearings and spark plugs.

You don't tweak a front wing.  That will definitely get you in a position you
don't want to be in.  As I stated in my first post though, you do adjust the
angle of the rear wing to add or subtract downforce, which from what I have
heard, is incorporated into the NHRA sim.

I also included this in my first post as something that is done....not
routinely, but ballast weight is adjusted on occasion, it's mainly done to add
or subtract weight on the nose of the car to prevent blowovers.  I have heard
that this is also incorporated into the game.

Sorry, but unless you are running a nostalgia dragster, or just don't feel like
qualifying, there are no *** gears.  Today's fuel cars run direct drive 1to1
high gear boxes, with a 3.20 rear end gear ratio.

I applaud your enthusiasm, and "hell" I'm sure you would probably do well at
it.  Save up your sim dollars and buy you a new McKinney or Plueger chassis and
go funny car racing.  That's all there is to it.    Best of luck!!!  :o)

Greg Duffield (for those that feel I was trying to keep anonimity)
TF #473

I did say build engines before runs I said build engine to get started
adjust you fuel flow cam timing igtion timing valvle opens, baor and stroke
etc.I know atleast Winston Cup teams do this between races and I would think
NHRA drivers do aswell unless they are all made to runt he same motor week
in week out.

Wrote the following:

Is it just me, or does this guy make no sense at all??

I specifically said the fuel cars run a 1to1 high gear box...(which also has a
reverser).  Yes...all they run is a 1 to 1 (1.00) gear ratio that they don't
change between events.  They change the gear box, but they don't change the
ratio.  

The way the clutch systems are regulated, does not create the need for a
transmission with changeable gears.  Generally a fuel car will leave the
starting line with the clutch slipping fairly well, then + or - 2.8 seconds
into the run (depending on track conditions) the clutch will lock up 1 to 1
with the engine for the  remainder of the race.  I guess when the clutch locks
up it's almost like a gear change.  

It gets to be quite complicated, because if you aren't applying enough power
off the starting line, and the track conditions are fairly good, you will get
into what they call "tire shake".  (The only way to describe this, would be
like a 50 magnitude earthquake.  It's so *** that you can't see anything at
all but a blurr of light.)  Then again, if you apply too much "clutch" off the
starting line, you will smoke the tires.  If you don't have enough downforce in
the rear wing you will smoke the tires on the top end of a run.  

Everything plays together, and is interrelated. Getting the engines to run half
decent is the easy part.  Add enough nitro and the means to fire it all, and
anyone can make alot of power.  It's getting it to the ground and making it
stick thats tricky.

Just one more thing, I'm not here trying to blast anyone.  I simply responded
to a post that I felt was completely incorrect and based on mis-information.  I
rather like having these little debates, and there is nothing personal at all
intended.  

Greg    

I've heard that the NHRA game will actually simulate tire shake if you don't
have your car setup right!  I think the problem is that not many people
actually know what's involved in the nitro classes.  Most any car has more
than enough horsepower to win the race, but the trick is getting it down the
track.  I can't wait until the Pro Stock version comes out!  Tachometers and
shifting...oh yeah!

-Bill

Well I (for one) am glad you are contributing. It just goes to show
how little the average simmer knows about this stuff. I've learned
quite a bit already.

--
Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

More commonly known as "wheel-hop."

<remove '_*_' before replying>

<More commonly known as "wheel-hop.">

No, tire shake is nothing like wheel-hop.  Nothing with less than about 1000
horsepower will ever experience anything like tire shake.  Wheel-hop is when
the suspension of the car allows the tire to actually lose the majority of it's
contact with the ground.  As this flexing back and forth continues the tire
kind of skips along the ground, and causes a mild vibration in the car.  

Tire shake on the other hand, has been known to cause some drivers to suffer
concussions and even lose conciousness!!!  It's basically when the tire tries
to grow and squat at the same time, it's a very strange phenomena.  I don't
even think a majority of the "big teams" know what it is exactly.  It's
something that is unbelievably *** no matter if you are running a 2000h.p.
Pro-Mod, or a 6000 h.p. Fuel Car.  When it happends you WILL know it, and it is
NOTHING like wheel hop.

Greg