rec.autos.simulators

Lots of good points and I have not tried it, BUT
Think, DO NOT give your money to Micro$oft. If you do you can bet they'll
try to***Papyrus just like they did Apple and more recently Netscape.
Notice you have to have Internet explorer and Netscape won't work.
Please do not support Micro$oft more than we already have to.
No matter how good it may seem at first the end result will be less
competition and less quality.
Just My $.02
Aloha, Henry

: >
: >Well the demos gone uninstalled today. Why because its shit, and Im sure
: >that after the new release frenzy has passed and people spend a bit more
: >time with it most people will come to this conclusion.

: Please refrain from the "profane". There are kids the views this newsgroup.

: > A sim has to be good to last.

: True.

: Arcade racers come and go, but a true sim,
: >(of which IMO have only been made by Papyrus) keep you in for years.

: Yes, Papy has been the "leader" in the past several years.

: > So whats wrong with CPR? beside the graphics which is obviously a sore
: >point ( how come POD gets 70 fps and CPR 20).

: What card are you using?? Try running w/o the***pit.

:  For a start it is advertised
: >as a "Racing Simulator". This it is not, That is not how racing cars react.

: I really don't know your experience with "real" racecars. Could you please
: clarify, you experiences, please? Just wanting to know, that's all no harm
: done..; )

: >A racing car is a large body of weight moving at great speed that has to
: >change directions, therefore understeer is the natural occurrence. If you go
: >into a corner too fast the car will understeer every time, same if you turn
: >too much compared with your speed.

: You are correct, it's usually called, "charging the corner, overdriving or too
: aggressive."

: If you want an example of this , try
: >Laguna with ICR2. Turn 3 in ICR2 is not just  a matter of turning the wheel
: >at the right time, If you do that you understeer straight off the track. To
: >take this corner you must back off slightly to bring the weight forward onto
: >your front wheels to give them the traction to take the corner. In CPR it
: >just flat out I think im in 5th there not 3 .

: Your example for ICR2, I have experienced..; ) Yet, in CPR, I do "push or
: understeer" going in some corners. I still have to "correct" my driving just
: like I did in ICR2, N1, ICR, GP2, and N2.

: BTW, what control device are you using????

: > Also the cars stop too fast and go too fast and since the full version has
: >no engine blow ups, you dont even need to use the brakes. Why use the brakes
: >when you can just slam the gears down. In fact you dont even need to back
: >off, hold your foot flat, downshift to the right great and turn into the
: >corner. ( I dont think this is how its meant to be done) You watch it wont
: >be long until all the fastest laps are done this way.

: Have you ever played GP2?? The cars there stop pretty too. Just wondering. I
: don't think you could "flat out" on the "hairpin" turns.

: > The major difference between a sim and an arcade racer is the speed of the
: >cars. In a sim you take the corner at similar speeds to the real thing, In
: >an arcade game its flat out all the way, well I believe that makes CPR an
: >arcade racing game.

: Let be known, in "sims", that you "can" go faster than what real racers do. You
: do have to deal with the "inertia or G's"

: Indycars dont go around the corners that fast .

: How do you know?? Could you please be explicit. Just wanting to know.

: It took
: >me nearly a year to match the lap record in ICR2 and 1 day in CPR .

: For Laguana in ICR2, about a week 4-6 hours a day. Gotta a good "race and qual"
: setup for it too..; )

: As for CPR, it's possible to do it in an hour, yet, this is a "demo". So we
: don't know actually how it's gonna be.

: > I could go on but I wont I just find it hard to understand the postings
: >saying what a great job MS have done with this realistic simulator.  Haven't
: >these people Tried ICR2 obviously not , and if they haven't then they are
: >not into racing sims and therefore their opinion is invalid.
: > Flame away

: You "judge" a company, just because if they haven't driven a "particular sim??
: Don't you think that's kinda closed minded?? ; )

: BTW, I do think ICR2 is a great sim... And I feel CPR, has alot of potential. I
: like it that there is competition in the sim arena.

: Take care

: JD

In fairness to CPR I should point out that ICR2's tracks are "less
than accurate" in some cases, so just because you take a corner if 3rd
in ICR2 doesn't mean that it should be like that in real life.

Also the gearing and wing settings that you use will affect the gear
selection for particular corners.

Cheers!
John

Trev

I really think you'll change your mind when you see the full release
version - everything I've heard suggests that it's like Cheech and
Chong do Destruction Derby when 26 CCs are let loose on Milwaukee.
"Pitiful" was the word used.

Cheers!
John

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    Well, I am happy that Microsoft Screwed Netscape I more then one =
reason. Now under the racing situation, I want Papyrus to still be the =
leader in the Racing Game making. But no matter what, competition is =
going to accure. Now lets hope that NASCAR will stick with Papyrus.

--=20
                                Sincerely,
                                Mark F.
Got a site on the Web? Want to promote or Join a Network? Heres your =
place to go:
http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/
Want to learn NASCAR 2 and/or Icr2 Editing? Well, then come here!:
http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/
Best Page of The Web!:
http://www.aolsucks.com
(nospam)

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT =
color=3D#000000>Well, I=20
am happy that Microsoft Screwed Netscape I more then one reason. Now =
under the=20
racing situation, I want Papyrus to still be the leader in the Racing =
Game=20
making. But no matter what, competition is going to accure. Now lets =
hope that=20
NASCAR will stick with Papyrus.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>--=20
<BR></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Sincerely,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Mark F.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Got a site on the Web? Want to promote or Join a Network? Heres =
your place=20
to go:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/">http://www.webstorage.com/~sim=
go/</A><BR>Want=20
to learn NASCAR 2 and/or Icr2 Editing? Well, then come here!:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.webstorage.com/~simgo/mypage/">http://www.webstorage.c=
om/~simgo/mypage/</A><BR>Best=20
Page of The Web!:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.aolsucks.com">http://www.aolsucks.com</A><BR>(nospam)&=
nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV>Henry B Kelley<HKEL...@HAWAII.EDU> wrote in message &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:63sb6k$...@news.Hawaii.Edu">63sb6k$...@news.Hawaii.Edu</A>=
&gt;...</DIV><BR>Lots=20
    of good points and I have not tried it, BUT<BR>Think, DO NOT give =
your money=20
    to Micro$oft. If you do you can bet they'll<BR>try to screw Papyrus =
just=20
    like they did Apple and more recently Netscape.<BR>Notice you have =
to have=20
    Internet explorer and Netscape won't work.<BR>Please do not support=20
    Micro$oft more than we already have to.<BR>No matter how good it may =
seem at=20
    first the end result will be less<BR>competition and less =
quality.<BR>Just=20
    My $.02<BR>Aloha, Henry<BR><BR><BR>JulianData wrote:<BR>: In article =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:878804935.730...@karri.southwest.com.au">878804935.730576@=
karri.southwest.com.au</A>&gt;,=20
    &quot;Todd&quot; says...<BR>: &gt;<BR>: &gt;Well the demos gone =
uninstalled=20
    today. Why because its shit, and Im sure<BR>: &gt;that after the new =
release=20
    frenzy has passed and people spend a bit more<BR>: &gt;time with it =
most=20
    people will come to this conclusion.<BR><BR><BR>: Please refrain =
from the=20
    &quot;profane&quot;. There are kids the views this =
newsgroup.<BR><BR>: &gt;=20
    A sim has to be good to last. <BR><BR>: True.<BR><BR>: Arcade racers =
come=20
    and go, but a true sim,<BR>: &gt;(of which IMO have only been made =
by=20
    Papyrus) keep you in for years.<BR><BR><BR>: Yes, Papy has been the=20
    &quot;leader&quot; in the past several years.<BR><BR>: &gt; So whats =
wrong=20
    with CPR? beside the graphics which is obviously a sore<BR>: =
&gt;point ( how=20
    come POD gets 70 fps and CPR 20).<BR><BR>: What card are you using?? =
Try=20
    running w/o the cockpit.<BR><BR>:&nbsp; For a start it is =
advertised<BR>:=20
    &gt;as a &quot;Racing Simulator&quot;. This it is not, That is not =
how=20
    racing cars react.<BR><BR><BR>: I really don't know your experience =
with=20
    &quot;real&quot; racecars. Could you please<BR>: clarify, you =
experiences,=20
...

read more »

Richard,
I'm not defending Papyrus (but they have responded to my questions)
I agree with your point about trying new and upcoming companies and I'm
sure I will try TRI, Ubisoft, and others in the future.
But, my point about Micro$oft is valid. It is companies like M$ that cause
inferior products because of marketing methods. Examples include Beta VCRs
(which are much better) being out-marketed by VHS systems. And Gates did
steal from Apple and then out-market them through sleazy tactics.
I may be new to sims, but I wasn't born yesterday.
I'm guessing you have a grudge with Papy, but I promise if Microsoft takes
up the sim market, you will be more than a litlle POed.
Aloha, Henry

: >Think, DO NOT give your money to Micro$oft. If you do you can bet they'll
: >try to***Papyrus just like they did Apple and more recently Netscape.
: >No matter how good it may seem at first the end result will be less
: >competition and less quality.

: Oh, fabulous advise, given the amount of $$$ and years you've thrown to
: Papyrus to deliver your next generation sim (or heck, just to continue some
: level of ICR2 support).  You've got TRI, Ubisoft, and others trying to
: deliver new alternatives, and ones I believe will become the de-facto sims
: in this genre over time and tuning.  Yet, you'd throw that away for a
: company that has barely given anyone the time of day for years.

: Kudo's to you.

: Rich

Think, DO NOT give your money to Micro$oft. If you do you can bet they'll try
 to***Papyrus just like they did Apple and more recently Netscape.>>

I love Papyrus.  You'll find my name listed as a beta tester for NASCAR 2 and
 SODA in the manuals for those sims.  At the same time, the above is just
 idiocy.  Sorry to have to be blunt about it, but the simple truth is that
 Sierra/Papyrus left IndyCar to age while moving on with NASCAR 2, SODA and
 soon GP Legends...Whether you like Microsoft or not, do not revise history by
 blaming Microsoft for Papyrus' decision not to continue to develop the
 IndyCar/CART license.  Papyrus found other things to do and Microsoft picked
 up the CART license and has produced a promising sim with it.  I still love my
 Papyrus products and have NO intention of removing any of them from my hard
 drive, but that doesn't mean I can't be happy with the fact that well-funded
 operation has picked up the neglected CART license and done something good
 with it.

Secondly, consider the shape open wheel fans were in up to this point.  GP2 has
 been abandoned by Microprose, and they never bothered to show up on the
 newsgroups soliciting feedback, make even the simplest of patches for the
 game, deliver on promises to add network play ,variable weather, etc.  So
 between Microprose abandoning GP2 and Papyrus letting ICR2 become a barely
 maintained classic, I would think you would be pretty happy about a big
 company making a big investment in the CART license...but of course spend or
 don't spend -- your choice.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/