rec.autos.simulators

I have both NR2003 and NASCAR Simracing.  I am what might be called a casual
player. I have not raced for a while and have been thinking about getting
back into it so I have been poking around the various web sites to see what
files, mods, updates and such I need to be up-to-date. While poking around I
was VERY suprised to see an almost total absence of anything to do with
NASCAR Simracing. I knew the game was something of a dissapointment when
released and the "Official Sim" remained NR2003 but I had figured that NSR
would still have a following if only because NSR was easily available while
NR2003 was scarce. It is obvious that I figured wrong. That got me thinking.

With the price of even a VERY used and beat-up copy of NR2003 approaching
$100 it seems to me that new guys willing to pay that just to try online
racing will be few and far between. If true this cannot be good.

Here in Italy I found NR2003 inserted in a game magazine several months
ago, for a very low price. At present, I don't know if it is really
available, but here it is listed for much less than $ 100:

http://www.dvdboxoffice.com/

Regards,

Socius

But since finding such a price for NR2003 requires a hunt while NSR can be
picked up pretty much anywhere for $30 or less still leaves the NR2003
community at a BIG disadvantage in recruiting new members.

NR2003 has a solid base of users and until "someone" else can develop a
stock car sim that compares, NR2003 will be on many hard drives. As for
recruiting new members at those prices, you may be right. I suspect
anyone who was interested jumped on board when it came out and in the
following year or so before Papy announced the end of the series.

While NR2003 may be way ahead of NSR Papy's lead shrinks when NSR is stacked
up against earlier Papy releases such as NR2002,  NASCAR4, etc. Each of
these had the advantage of being the best available at the time but each of
these still had glaring faults that propted shrill condemnations that sound
remarkably like those now heaped upon NSR.

The seeming eternal wait for EA's promised "parade of patches" does not mean
another patch is not on the way any more than did the equally eternal wait
for a patch from Papy. The appearent impossibility of getting any word at
all from EA about future patches (if any) is remarkably similar to the stony
silence that was Papy's non-reply to the pleadings of its fans. Both Papy
then and EA now seem content to ignore fans and let them stew in their own
jucies wondering if/when a future patch will fix one or another glaring
fault (remember wall-riding?).

Assuming that the one patch EA did release is the only patch and such things
as are still broken will remain broken until "NSR2" hits the market; will
this not also equal Papy's practice of one-patch-per-game? The current
running joke in NSR forums that "EA will be realeasing the next patch as
NSR2 and will sell for $39.95" originated in the Papy forums but with "Papy"
in place of "EA".

Goggle reviews of NR2003, NR2002, NR4, etc and count the number of comments
along the lines of "In the new version Papy FINALLY fixed "this" long
standing fault but "that other trouble" still plagues the sim."

Are there any here who doubt that Papy *could* have patched NR2002 to equal
NR2003? Did Papy "screw" us when they chose to call the NR2002 patch NR2003
and sell us the patch for $49.95. Shoving the "screw" a little deeper into
the fans, what possible reason did Papy have for "screwing" us out of
NR2002's  Darrell Waltrip narrated "Track Tours"? The Papy fanbois took the
elimination of the Track Tours as an opportunity to puff themselves up and
present themselves as NASCAR GODS who's exalted expertise rendered the
Waltrip tours an insult to their knowledge and skill but I somehow think
Papy had a different motive for eliminating the Waltrip tours than
worshipful deference to the over-inflated egos of this self-proclaimed
pantheon.

While all of this is little help to the current incarnation of NSR it does
lend some reason for hope that NSR has a future.Whatever NSR's current
shortcomings there are few who would deny that the current code is a
potential Papy beater. There is no need for EA to start from scratch, they
need only make improvements on the code they have.The fact that NR2003 is
selling for so much should be a clue to EA that there are a lot of folks
willing to throw a lot of money at them if the needed improvements are made.
I find it hard to believe that EA paid NASCAR all that money for the name
only to let NSR die after one version and one patch.

It may well be that NSR will never equal NR2003 and that NR2003 will become
the next "Grand Prix Legends" as the best available year after year after
year but I think it is a little too early to place any bets.

I use NR2K3, and have never tried that other game. A number of folks are
doing LFS and/or GTR.  With FIRST stepping on it's own***, a lot of
people are waiting for rFactor (August? September?).

rFactor mods are already under construction for the 1970 grand national
mod, and there may even be an aero88 mod for it as well.  There will
most certainly be a modern stockcar mod for it, too.  On top of that,
various grand am, trans-am, open-wheel, and other mods are being
planned.  Look for a lot of 3rd-party support from The Pits.

You make some valid points. NR2003 is/was a pretty polished product
when released and it was the result of the evolution of the sim from N1
thru NR2002. However, MY biggest gripe with NSR is the fact that they
bought the EXCLUSIVE license for NASCAR, put Papy out of the stock car
sim business, and then announced plans to release a "true to life"
stock car sim. (I now read from the rear of the box of NSR) Phrases
like "realistic physics model", "true to life feeling", "definitive
racing experience" and the mother of all lies "ALL NEW GAME ENGINE".

I don't know if you bought NSR, but I did and I can't seem find any of
those things. The locked/unlocked rear diff issue is a blunder that CAN
be fixed, but prevents online *** with a mismatch error. The text
files are littered with references to Thunder 04 and 03 and IIRC, F1C.
Multiplayer...well let's not go there. One of the devs of NSR did a Q&A
at OLR I think and said that beta testers were using a game that was
numerous versions past the retail one. WTF is that? Well, where is the
updated code!?!?!?!?

Look at it this way, NSR SHOULD have started at the level that Papy
ended at. EA had the chance to see the progression of the NRxxxx series
and learn what worked and what didn't. They should have then
incorporated all the good things and then added to it. Instead it was 1
step forward (by Papy) and 2 steps back (NSR).

   Framerate issues are not something I've seen complaints about yet.  
Realize in the demo, a portion of the physics engine and a portion of the
graphics engine are disabled.  So the drag on your system will probably
increase with the final product.  Next, fps are 'usually' better in online
situations than offline, so if you run offline with a large pack, then even
more fps will drain away.  
   I'd start googling for fps improvements from the older titles and see if
you can find something to help your system.  Hanje's site is pretty
thorough.

dave henrie

Andrew "fortune cookie" McP

Each and every "version" of NR that papy put out the door was specifically
eventually patched, most of the patches were for funky systems specs some
were for gameplay, however NSR it is the exact opposite.  They shipped 'out
the door' something that is UTTERLY worthless as not only a sim, but for
multiplayer.  Papyrus might have gotten off easy, in your mind because the
not only built the damn ruler but set the bar higher with every release and
or patch, what can EA honeslty bragg about?  I know this is what you mean
when you post that people popped money out for Papy "turds?"  lol I find
that very funny.

Here's you...
"Uhm, UUUUHHHHM , well it is like a great racing game just like and as great
as 'Need For Speed' but you go around a circular track..."
Zero support.  BTW I have tried most driving games, even EA's Bullshit, and
on the PC, what you playing, Nintendo?

Here's the rest of the sim racing community,
"Need For Speed?"  That is like saying Mongoose Bicycles (in walmart) are
not bad compared to Schwin's at the bicycle shop, for the same dollar price"
BOLOGNA!!!!.

Joe enlightened us with:

    EA, the distributors of GTR, think nothing of flat out lying as they did
in various magazines recently with comments like "Flawless multiplay", etc.
This is a money making outfit - the product only needs to be good enough to
sell, promote and fool the average parent or noob with words like "official"
and "simulator".

    They are a bunch of arseholes, as are most in the racing simulator
business atm.