rec.autos.simulators

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:41:53

Hehe. At least the 1/8 gassers didn't throw props at me!

-Larry

> That's what you get for messing with two-strokes :)

> --
> Pat Dotson

> > This has happened to me with 1/8 scale Gas Racers :) A pop, then going
the
> > wrong way!

> > -Larry

> > > Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start
it
> > rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating
> > > the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-)

> > > SB

> > > > Absolutely Wicked Richard....do you have a clutch pedal or have it
> > > > assigned to a button on your wheel?
> > > > dave henrie

> > wrote in

> > > > x-no-archive: yes

> > > > I'm e***d!!!

> > > > Get this - last night I span out in F12001, and ended up going
backwards
> > > > fast in about 4th gear. The engine stalled and I was leaving a huge
> > trail of
> > > > ***. Recovering my wits, I pressed the clutch in, selected
reverse,
> > and
> > > > let the clutch out again.

> > > > To my amazement, the engine bump started!!!

> > > > I quickly put the clutch back in, stopped, selected 1st, did a spin
> > turn,
> > > > and continued my race with a huge grin!! :-D

> > > > R.

by **The Other Larr** » Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:44:24

Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In
fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards
and throw the props at you.

Two strokes will do it too, but the 4-strokers are notorious about it. Bad
enough that locking prop-nuts have been produced.

I had one kick me in the ass from 30 feet once :)

-Larry

> >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start it
> >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating
> >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-)

> That couldn't happen with a four stroke.

> Don McCorkle

by **Don Burnett** » Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:38:36

Lol, yeah they sure will.
Interestingly enough, I used to fly pattern competition years ago, I was
heavy into it for several years. Ended up burning myself out on it.
Anyways, back then the popular pattern machines used 2 strokes, and I would
always start my engine by simply bumping the spinner backwards with my thumb
and forefinger, rascal would fire right up running in the right direction
almost every time. Bump it in the direction of rotation though, and half the
time it would fire up running backwards.

Don Burnette

> Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In
> fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards
> and throw the props at you.

> Two strokes will do it too, but the 4-strokers are notorious about it.
Bad
> enough that locking prop-nuts have been produced.

> I had one kick me in the ass from 30 feet once :)

> -Larry

> > >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start
it
> > >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating
> > >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-)

> > That couldn't happen with a four stroke.

> > Don McCorkle

by **Woodie** » Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:07:44

How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a cylinder-wall
port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke running backwards
will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through the carburator.
Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it does this?
:-)

Don McCorkle

by **Sting3** » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:27:02

Those model ariplanes IMHO are so wasteful, about how much fuel is
introduced vs how much fuel is burned, probably due to the fuel being
lubricant as well, that it was not uncomon that the muffler would be full of
fuel enough to run until you discovered it was runing the wrong way! of
course it was not prefered so you'd shut it off right away... i dont know
how long a 4 stroke airplane ould run backwards, but then again why would
you let it keep on running? so hope this helps your question about 4
strokes running backwards, ONLY in these small engines.

On another note, I had found a Chevy with a good motor (supposedly) at a
friends house (farmhouse). I asked 1st thing, DOES it run? to prove it, he
runs out to start it, without opening the hood or anything... it starts,
and ran very high idle, (guessing up near 3500 rpms, with no control. My
friend decided that the throttle linkage fell off so he shuts it off, and
opens the hood... To our ama***t, the Carberator is gone (stolen at some
undetermined point of time)! the fuel line is spraying only "close" to the
opening, and hitting one of the carb studs, and off the hood, providing fuel
in a rebounding spray... man were we shocked, and lucky nothing caught on
fire...

> >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In
> >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards
> >and throw the props at you.

> How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a
cylinder-wall
> port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke running
backwards
> will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through the
carburator.
> Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it does
this?
> :-)

> Don McCorkle

by **The Other Larr** » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:09:06

I can understand the burn-out part :)

I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about $10,000
later, I had had enough.

Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too...

-Larry

> Lol, yeah they sure will.
> Interestingly enough, I used to fly pattern competition years ago, I was
> heavy into it for several years. Ended up burning myself out on it.
> Anyways, back then the popular pattern machines used 2 strokes, and I
would
> always start my engine by simply bumping the spinner backwards with my
thumb
> and forefinger, rascal would fire right up running in the right direction
> almost every time. Bump it in the direction of rotation though, and half
the
> time it would fire up running backwards.

> Don Burnette

> > Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In
> > fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over
backwards
> > and throw the props at you.

> > Two strokes will do it too, but the 4-strokers are notorious about it.
> Bad
> > enough that locking prop-nuts have been produced.

> > I had one kick me in the ass from 30 feet once :)

> > -Larry

> > > >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump
start
> it
> > > >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating
> > > >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-)

> > > That couldn't happen with a four stroke.

> > > Don McCorkle

by **The Other Larr** » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:09:57

I assure you that 4-stroke plane engines run backwards and throw props.
Like I said, it's bad enough of a problem that there are locking prop nuts
on the market to keep folks from getting chewed up.

-Larry

> >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In
> >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards
> >and throw the props at you.

> How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a
cylinder-wall
> port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke running
backwards
> will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through the
carburator.
> Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it does
this?
> :-)

> Don McCorkle

by **The Other Larr** » Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:10:37

That's not fuel, it's lubricant. Either Castor or Synthetic. Yes, it's a
real mess.

-Larry

> Those model ariplanes IMHO are so wasteful, about how much fuel is
> introduced vs how much fuel is burned, probably due to the fuel being
> lubricant as well, that it was not uncomon that the muffler would be full
of
> fuel enough to run until you discovered it was runing the wrong way! of
> course it was not prefered so you'd shut it off right away... i dont know
> how long a 4 stroke airplane ould run backwards, but then again why would
> you let it keep on running? so hope this helps your question about 4
> strokes running backwards, ONLY in these small engines.

> On another note, I had found a Chevy with a good motor (supposedly) at a
> friends house (farmhouse). I asked 1st thing, DOES it run? to prove it,
he
> runs out to start it, without opening the hood or anything... it starts,
> and ran very high idle, (guessing up near 3500 rpms, with no control. My
> friend decided that the throttle linkage fell off so he shuts it off, and
> opens the hood... To our ama***t, the Carberator is gone (stolen at
some
> undetermined point of time)! the fuel line is spraying only "close" to
the
> opening, and hitting one of the carb studs, and off the hood, providing
fuel
> in a rebounding spray... man were we shocked, and lucky nothing caught on
> fire...

> > >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards.
In
> > >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over
backwards
> > >and throw the props at you.

> > How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a
> cylinder-wall
> > port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke running
> backwards
> > will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through the
> carburator.
> > Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it does
> this?
> > :-)

> > Don McCorkle

by **Eldre** » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:35:04

>I can understand the burn-out part :)

>I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about $10,000
>later, I had had enough.

>Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too...

>-Larry

Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **The Other Larr** » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:39:51

Grand?

LOL!

A BASIC chopper with kit, engine, radio gear etc.. can cost a grand!

I probably way under-estimated how much I spent when I said $10,000 :)

I hand-built one Bell 222 (full retracts, lighting, etc...) that I had over
$2500 and 500 man-hours in.

I was afraid to fly it so I sold it. Made quite a profit on it too :)

BTW... My next hobby after the Helo's was 1/4 Scale Nascar Racing. In fact,
I raced in the first-ever ROAR 1/4 scale nationals in San Diego CA about,
oh, 15 years ago. Came in around 4th in the field if I remember right.

It's a damned shame (or maybe a blessing) that they don't have 1/4 scale
tracks in my area now :(

If you haven't seen them, these are true racing machines. Approximately 30
inches long, 14 inches wide or so. I think about 32 pounds was the rule
minimum on weight. Run weed-whacker motors and various types of
transmissions. Racing slicks about 6 inches tall and 3 inches wide. Full
suspension adjustability.

One company, WSC, builds their frames out of 100% tubing, just like the real
one's. I preferred the other one's as they were tougher and cheaper to fix
(Raaco or something like that. It's been a LONG time). They also had a 1/4
scaler called the Jac-Rabit that was a blast.

The track in San Diego was awesome. It was on old kids midget track they
converted.

It was on the grounds of the Full-Size race track in San Diego. It's funny,
we weren't allowed to have races on Saturday because too many people came to
our side instead of the full-size side and the track started losing money!

You think Sim-Racing is fun? 1/4 scale stockers are a REAL blast :)

A decent starter car with all equipment, back then, ran around $1000 if I
remember correctly.

-Larry

\(The

> >I can understand the burn-out part :)

> >I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about
$10,000
> >later, I had had enough.

> >Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too...

> >-Larry

> Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn...

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank - under construction...

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **The Other Larr** » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:48:51

Interesting. Raco was once an American company, based out of CA.

Now they are in Austria?

http://www.raco.co.at/

Check out the goodies :)

-Larry

> Grand?

> LOL!

> A BASIC chopper with kit, engine, radio gear etc.. can cost a grand!

> I probably way under-estimated how much I spent when I said $10,000 :)

> I hand-built one Bell 222 (full retracts, lighting, etc...) that I had
over
> $2500 and 500 man-hours in.

> I was afraid to fly it so I sold it. Made quite a profit on it too :)

> BTW... My next hobby after the Helo's was 1/4 Scale Nascar Racing. In
fact,
> I raced in the first-ever ROAR 1/4 scale nationals in San Diego CA about,
> oh, 15 years ago. Came in around 4th in the field if I remember right.

> It's a damned shame (or maybe a blessing) that they don't have 1/4 scale
> tracks in my area now :(

> If you haven't seen them, these are true racing machines. Approximately
30
> inches long, 14 inches wide or so. I think about 32 pounds was the rule
> minimum on weight. Run weed-whacker motors and various types of
> transmissions. Racing slicks about 6 inches tall and 3 inches wide. Full
> suspension adjustability.

> One company, WSC, builds their frames out of 100% tubing, just like the
real
> one's. I preferred the other one's as they were tougher and cheaper to
fix
> (Raaco or something like that. It's been a LONG time). They also had a
1/4
> scaler called the Jac-Rabit that was a blast.

> The track in San Diego was awesome. It was on old kids midget track they
> converted.

> It was on the grounds of the Full-Size race track in San Diego. It's
funny,
> we weren't allowed to have races on Saturday because too many people came
to
> our side instead of the full-size side and the track started losing money!

> You think Sim-Racing is fun? 1/4 scale stockers are a REAL blast :)

> A decent starter car with all equipment, back then, ran around $1000 if I
> remember correctly.

> -Larry

> \(The

> > >I can understand the burn-out part :)

> > >I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about
> $10,000
> > >later, I had had enough.

> > >Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too...

> > >-Larry

> > Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn...

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > GPLRank - under construction...

> > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
> you
> > with experience...
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **The Other Larr** » Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:50:56

Here's a nice page that shows some 'innards'.