rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:03:26

Alison's point abt. latency, if I understood her right (and I often don't)
is that the mis-labeled "latency" is actually a prediction algorithm,
neccessary in the days of Pentium 2-400s when GPL was being developed, but
unneccessary now with modern blitzkrieg CPUs. Thus, the faster yer CPU, the
LESS "latency" you need. (In my experience, higher "latency" settings
result in higher kickback torque thru the steering wheel.)

> > [ Hack ]
> > steer_ratio = 1 ; Enable low speed ratio override

> > [ Joy ]
> > allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it
> > force_feedback_damping = 70 ; force feedback damping
coefficient
> > force_feedback_latency = 0.030000 ; force feedback latency (secs)
> > max_steering_torque = 298.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving
max
> > device force

> > 100% steering linearity in the game and I usually use a 16:1 steering
ratio.

> Those don't feel too bad. The latency seems a bit off. I still prefer
> Alisons' 0.020000, but I'm cruising around at a blazing 15fps so my
> opinion really means nothing in that regard.

> I've forgotten how much fun it is to drive with a FF wheel. I'm using
> my top-hinged, steel pedals from SRC and GPL is a blast to drive!

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:06:35

Thx, Andre - that would be interesting. (I haven't noticed any significant
fps drops, but I have noticed some hesitation/stuttering when I leave the
pits since installing the MOMO. I have been attributing this to one of the
worst WinME installs I've ever done - I thought the OS was AWOL "Update"
hunting again.)

> On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:56:11 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Andrew,

> >It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As
a

> Well.. a year or so ago I bought a GF2 GTS card, and when I installed
> it I had 36fps in GPL at the start, at the back of the grid. But a
> while after that I noticed some major drops in fps while racing.
> I thought it was caused by some updates, perhaps some of those 16bit
> cars I recently had installed. For testing I installed an older backup
> of GPL, but still had the fps drops.

> Since then I tried a lot, different drivers, windows memory settings,
> but the problem still remains. Yesterday I read a post on Legends
> Central from a guy who had the same problem, and wondered if it could
> be caused by his Momo. I never though about the momo software being
> the possible cause in the fps drops, but I did buy the momo a while
> after my GF2 card, so it -could- be the case..

> I will uninstall the momo drivers and software when I get home and
> test if the drop in fps is gone in GPL.. will post the results here.

> Andre

by **Jan Verschuere** » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 21:01:58

Eh... I think you must have misunderstood Alison is this respect Steve. The
latency setting is indeed a measure of the amount of prediction, but not to
compensate for lack of CPU power AFAIK.

It takes a small amount of time for the command to go to and for the force
feedback torque to build in the wheel and it's this delay which is
compensated for in the algorythm. I know the LWFF worked well with a low
setting, but the MOMO will produce spikes and dropouts (FF disappearing on
big corrections) at the same settings. 30ms may sound like a long time when
first encountered, but, in GPL's case, it's only about a frame's worth of
prediction so it doesn't really interfere with gameplay in my experience.

Jan.
=---

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:39:35

Jan,

Thx for the heds-up. I'm trying 30 now and it feels fine (that is, better
than 20 or 40, which I also tried). Alison tried zero and hated it. As you
say, strange artifacts (kickback in the middle of a long straight) and
torque spikes.

--Steve

by **Don Burnett** » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:43:01

Glad I saw this thread, went and downloaded the current beta drivers - 4.20,
and can tell it made a difference for me , especially with the mechanical
centering of the wheel. I am probably imagining this, but the force feedback
seems better to me as well.

Don Burnette

> > Andrew,

> > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive.
As a
> > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles
> > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w
> > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech
and
> > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help
> > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.).

> Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all
> over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU
> utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in
> GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU
> usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB
> Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's
> much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the ***s to the
> upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better.
> And the wheel is so much more responsive.

by **Internet Use** » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:11:42

> Andrew,

> It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a
> USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles
> outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w
> environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and
> the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help
> (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.).

Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all
over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU
utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in
GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU
usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB
Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's
much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the ***s to the
upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better.
And the wheel is so much more responsive.

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:54:22

Two Qs:

1. Why don't you try a different mouse?

2. What magic (apart from the kicking & the screaming) did you apply to
reduce yer CPU occupancy?

--Steve

> > Andrew,

> > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive.
As a
> > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles
> > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w
> > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech
and
> > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help
> > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.).

> Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all
> over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU
> utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in
> GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU
> usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB
> Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's
> much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the ***s to the
> upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better.
> And the wheel is so much more responsive.

by **Steve Garrot** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:02:07

I have never understood the purpose in a USB mouse or keyboard, all of
them I have ever seen causes problems with CPU Utilization. I think
they make computers with Keybord and mouse ports for a reason, then
again, I tend to not mess with a working system.

SLG

>> Andrew,

>> It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a
>> USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles
>> outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w
>> environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and
>> the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help
>> (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.).

>Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all
>over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU
>utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in
>GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU
>usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB
>Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's
>much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the ***s to the
>upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better.
> And the wheel is so much more responsive.

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new
and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are
due to too many English classes/teachers)

by **Andre Warrin** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:05:27

How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of
CPU usage?

Andre

by **Internet Use** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 06:53:14

> How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of
> CPU usage?

> Andre

I was checking through the Windows XP task manager. I'm not sure what I
did to drop the cpu usage, but here are the steps I took

(1) Disconnected all my USB devices.
(1) Uninstalled all of my USB devices from the control panel. Including
mice, game controllers, and the USB hubs themselves.
(2) Rebooted so that Windows would redetect my USB hubs. I have a hub
on my motherboard and one on the base of my monitor.
(3) Reinstalled the wingman drivers.
(4) Plugged the MOMO and trackball into motherboard USB ports. The MOMO
was previously on the external hub.

That's it. I didn't do anything that should have solved the cpu usage
problem. I still don't know why the wheel would be eating cpu cycles
when it's not in use, but it is. I've recently moved the trackball from
the USB port, to the PS2 port. It's a new trackball, and I didn't even
realize that it had a PS2 adapter. The MOMO still eats cpu cycles with
out any USB devices plugged in, so it's not a device contention issue.
I have an old motherboard which I believe supports the USB 1.0 standard.
Most current boards support 1.1, and the newer versions 2.0. So it
could simply be a hardware issue. I plan on upgrading soon. Just
waiting for Intel to announce the P4 2.8ghz, so the 2.4's drop in price.

-Andrew

by **Internet Use** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 06:55:32

> I have never understood the purpose in a USB mouse or keyboard, all of
> them I have ever seen causes problems with CPU Utilization. I think
> they make computers with Keybord and mouse ports for a reason, then
> again, I tend to not mess with a working system.

> SLG

I have come to that conclusion myself. There are boards currently
shipping without PS2 ports which is a problem if USB devices always
incur a cpu penalty. I don't know if USB 2.0 addresses that, or if
there are better controllers.

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:50:35

Thx, IU!

> > How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of
> > CPU usage?

> > Andre

> I was checking through the Windows XP task manager. I'm not sure what I
> did to drop the cpu usage, but here are the steps I took

> (1) Disconnected all my USB devices.
> (1) Uninstalled all of my USB devices from the control panel. Including
> mice, game controllers, and the USB hubs themselves.
> (2) Rebooted so that Windows would redetect my USB hubs. I have a hub
> on my motherboard and one on the base of my monitor.
> (3) Reinstalled the wingman drivers.
> (4) Plugged the MOMO and trackball into motherboard USB ports. The MOMO
> was previously on the external hub.

> That's it. I didn't do anything that should have solved the cpu usage
> problem. I still don't know why the wheel would be eating cpu cycles
> when it's not in use, but it is. I've recently moved the trackball from
> the USB port, to the PS2 port. It's a new trackball, and I didn't even
> realize that it had a PS2 adapter. The MOMO still eats cpu cycles with
> out any USB devices plugged in, so it's not a device contention issue.
> I have an old motherboard which I believe supports the USB 1.0 standard.
> Most current boards support 1.1, and the newer versions 2.0. So it
> could simply be a hardware issue. I plan on upgrading soon. Just
> waiting for Intel to announce the P4 2.8ghz, so the 2.4's drop in price.

> -Andrew

by **Andre Warring** » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:05:53

>> How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of
>> CPU usage?

>> Andre

Well, I deleted all the momo drivers, and still had the fps hickups in
GPL. So I don't think it was caused by the Momo software.
I did a fresh install of windows after that, reinstalled everything
one by one, and GPL seems to work ok now..

Andre

rec.autos.simulators

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?