rec.autos.simulators

In the interview I read with Geoff C. he was asked will F1GP2 be
as/more realistic as ICR/NASCAR/ + future Pap. race games. He said
that they are making it more realistic but do not want to take away
the playability and driving frmo the game. His point was that you are
a *driver* in a F1 team. You are not the engineer, you want a bit more
wing, you don't tell him exactly what degree you want the wing set to.
If you read into that that F1GP2 is going to be a console type race
game you are wrong. But don't be hoping for something that's going to
have everything.

Jamie

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   >[skip a lot!]
   >> I took Indycar back to the store the day after I installed it because I w

   >> winning races on the first day! I qualified 15(!) mph faster at Louden my
   >st
   >> time out. The game is just too easy!
   >> World Circuit has been with me on my 3rd machine now.

TWJ>Are you for real?

Probably.  Did you fail to see the oppenent strength setting in the options?
Its set pretty low outta the box.

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Not long for me.  But I been playin' NASCAR lately.  <g>

RE>Maybe a new thread:  F1GP drivers vs ICR drivers & driving skill. ;)

RE>Oh yeah, if only we could have a sim that combines all the best
  >qualitites of ICR, NASCAR, F1GP, & GP2...that would be something!

I know.....quick!! Someone make a simulator of IROC!!!  <g>

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If you switch views to just see how far back a driver is, NASCAR and
IndyCar are capable of that.  Also, in IndyCar and NASCAR, when is there
ever time to "leave" your car?

ST>Also, in F1GP, if you crash out of the race, you can ride with one of
  >the other cars (skipping in and out of accelerated time if you wish)
  >until the finish.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember you
  >can't do this in the Papyrus games.

Right...once your in accelerated time, you can't take it out.  All you can
do is goto into the replay and watch from there.

ST>It's little touches like these that demonstrate the genius of Geoff
  >Crammond as a game designer as well as a programmer.

I'd say the programmers and designers at Papyrus are pretty good themselves.
Let's give them their do credit.

ST>I'm quite confident that Grand Prix II will blow Indycar, NASCAR and
  >their sequels out of the water.  In fact, the only game I'd be worried
  >about from Microprose's point of view is the soon to be released fully
  >licensed Grand Prix for the Sega Saturn.  I've spoken to someone who's
  >seen a video of it, and apparently it's totally amazing.

I don't have a Sega Saturn, don't want a Sega Saturn and am not getting a
Sega Saturn.  <g>  So....how good is Grand Prix I?  Is there a demo for it
than I can get someplace?
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I don't even understand why they call F1GP a simulation. The game has
worse driving physics than a cow. It's like the car floats on the road.
Wake up people, racing car's aren't easy to drive. If Indycar seems too
hard and not enjoyable enough, then maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't
in the game, but in that you need more training.

I have raced Indycar some 18 months now, and it gives me the shivers...
When you train at a track for 2 or 3 weeks and then you race it and then
the laps start running low and the finish isn't that far away and then
your gut starts to tingle and your hands start to shake and the race has
gone on for 2 hours and you're leading by 10 seconds and the possibility
of actually winning a race after a year of racing starts growing on you
and the laps keep running out and you know if you just can keep it up
for a few laps more then you'll win but the handling starts to go awry
as the tire wear becomes worse and every corner is a pain and your heart
is beating madly and your fingers go cold and there's no feeling in them
and your eyes start to ache and only 10 laps to go and you can't scratch
that itch in your back as that'd spoil your driving and 5 laps only and
then the white flag comes out and only 2 miles to go and then you're the
winner and a few corners only and then only one and the end straight and
the finish line and the chequered flag waves and music blasts from the
speakers and the text 'YOU WON!' is on the screen, _THEN_ you know you
have played a real racing game and it's a treasure in your heart when you
know that not many have done it, that you yourself thought it impossible,
and that's why I play Papyrus games, not F1GP/WC

Tommi Pajari

Indycar:

Winner at Laguna Seca
Winner at Michigan

Nascar:

Winner at Talladega
Winner at Bristol

A.B.

Relax, it's only life.

Personally I think Indycar is a good game but much inferior to F1GP.
This is partly because of blocky graphics, partly because the car
sounds like an electric toothbrush, partly because ovals are the most
BORING things to race on (I happen to love Sears Point and the Glen).
Mainly it's just because I find F1GP more realistic to play (WITHOUT
all the help) and I prefer to race in the world's premier racing
formula.

Each to his own....

   > pretty cool.  You cannot, however, take IndyCar seriously as a sim.  
   > There isn't a driver in the world (except for Mansell) that brakes tests

   > you coming OUT of the corner or when you get too close behind him in a
draf
   > No one would move over for you to make a pass for position.  Granted they
   > do often hit each other trying to outbrake each other, but it doesn't
   > happen in real life nearly as often as in this GAME.
   >
       Too bad you feel that way, yes the ovals are easy, but winning at
some of the road coarses is tougher.  One of the supposed upgrades in
Indycar Racing II is improved AI.  I always hated how badly the cars took
1st turns, everyone bunches up til you've got a parking lot.  Hopefully
many of these things will be improoved or cleared up.  Check out ICRII
and see if it answers some of your critiques when it comes out.
Dave Henrie

 * JABBER v1.1 * "Die!  You Furless Freak!"--WC]I[
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That was sheer poetry, fellow racer.  I'm with Tommi, Indycar is a
terrific game!  Extremely rewarding after you master all the nuances
of tuning and learning to drive a racecar.  Especially, when you go
head to head against a friend/foe with their own custom car!   Who IS
the better mechanic?  Who IS the better driver?

The arcarde stuff is cool for a break, when you don't want to have to
think and design YOUR OWN racecar (NFS is a great game in this genre).

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I agree completely. It takes total concentration to complete a full race
with a T1 and all help turned off. The car does handle like a truck with the
default settings, but with a little modification the car handles much more
like it should. It doesn't slide around like an indycar, mostly because an F1
car is much lighter and has more downforce, therefore you need to be more
accurate.

I took indycar off my hard drive months ago. I don't like to have a car that
is directly in front of me come to complete stop for a fraction of a second,
this and the strange lines the cars take through the turns (like Cleveland)
really hurts the sim. I did enjoy the setup and handling of ICR but the actual
racing leaves much to be desired. There is always hope for ICR II.

        James MacSwain

Yesterday evening, a flying saucer landed on our backyard.I grabbed my Kodak,
but it was gone before I was able to aim it..

PS:With F1GP and a simple patch, one has at least  the chance to back up such
silly claims.........

Happy dreaming,

Jo
this is my special ****off*-signature, so *** OFF

Absolutely. I remember ploughing many hours into the original Indy500
game - it had all the aspects of endurance, tactics and racing in one
which is why it was such a fantastic game.

However, don't write off Formula 1 Grand Prix. The author, Geoff
Crammond basically accepted that:
1) He wanted to make his game accesible to players of a wide variety
of abilities ( i.e. by including auto-braking, steering help etc.. ).
2) He realised that there is no-way anyone would really be able to
control a real F1 car with just a keyboard, or even a joystick. If you
turn off all the options such traction control and steering aids
( you can only do this with an anologue controller ), it comes much
closer to the driving experience of IndyCar racing.

This reminds me a bit of an old simulation on the BBC micro called
'747'. As the title may have implied, it was a simulation of a
Boeing 747 - the idea was to land the plane. However, I found this
task to be bloddy impossible. I thought it was just me until I
discovered that the pilot of a _real_ 747 said that landing a
real Jumbo Jet was 5 times easier than landing the simulation!

My point is this - in some ways, if you discard all of the physical
aspects of driving, driving a real IndyCar may be slightly easier
than the simulation because you get real feedback and a much better
perception of distances. Now, when IndyCar 3 comes out and supports
Stereoscopic VR helmets, Steering-wheels with feedback and 3D sound,
_that_ would be a real driving experience.

Fraser

P.S. I reckon F1GP2 is going to blow the Papyrus games right out
of the water both in terms if graphics and physics modelling.
So there!

However complicated you believe the physics model on IndyCar racing is,
it only takes up the smallest fracion of processor time ( as does the
driver A.I. ). Therefore, your assertion that if F1GP had included a
better driving model, the frame-rate would have sucked is incorrect.
A better driving model may have meant, say, 1 frame per second less.

The reason F1GP didn't included refueling was that it simulated the 1991
F1 season in which there wasn't any refueling!!

Fraser.

BUT, play whichever one YOU like best.

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|> >Alright the AI may suck, the cars may have a bit of unrealistic reaction
|> >on occasions but at least with F1GP you can concentrate on the racing
|> >rather than just keeping the car on the track.
|>
|> Most of racing IS trying to keep the car on the track!  Indycar
|> undisputably has more depth than F1GP.  With the full range of
|> customizable features of the Indycars to the models of the actual
|> tracks to the full length races to the random weather changes/effects
|> - Indycar has F1GP beaten squarely.  Heck, even a detail such as the
|> amount of fuel you carry doesn't have a definite effect in F1GP.

I thought the tracks in F1GP are also models of the real things, too.

I thought you can run 100% race distance in F1GP, too.

Indycar has beaten F1GP squarely? I doubt that... Look at wet races in
F1GP. The grey sky, reduced visibility, water sprays from cars ahead...
Indycar wet races? Practically a joke...

The amount of fuel does have a definite effect in F1GP. The fastest laps
are almost always set at later stages of races. Since refueling was illegal
until 1994, therefore F1GP has no refueling feature. I remember whenever
I run 100% races, I always change tires with 10 or so laps left, and go flat
out to set the fastest lap to take advantage of the light fuel load. The
fast laps are consistently 5 seconds or so faster than the ones set at
early stages of races.

Perhaps you should stop running around in circles and take a look at the
real thing - the toughest challenge in the world - Formula One.

--
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