rec.autos.simulators

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

Tim Vanhe

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Tim Vanhe » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Bruce, did you ever dream of a hyperstim? Well this is your chance! :)



> Bruce,

> You're a man I could sit down with for a chat. Welcome at Hyper anytime.

> Regards
> Jon Crooke

> _____________________________________________
> "THE WORLD'S BEST HOME RACING CAR SIMULATOR"
> HYPER STIMULATOR INTERNATIONAL P/L
> www.hyperstimulator.com



> > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway
> > rushing towards you at 200kph?
> > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this
> > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of
the
> > speed at which a racing car travels.

> > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"?

> > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)
"Dad........why
> > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?"  He
then
> > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by
> > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves
towards
> > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets
the
> > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the
> > road, the sh***y, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur.

> > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely
> > correct.

> > But this doesn't happen in a sim.  I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed
down
> > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen
from
> > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as
clearly
> > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away.
> > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring
> > effect a all.

> > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer
could
> > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor.

> > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated?
> > I would be curious to read educated comment.

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

Mats Lofkvis

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Mats Lofkvis » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00


True. The correct way (imo) to improve the feeling of speed is to
increase the framerate (quite easy if you have enough graphics power
to start thinking about motion blur) and to increase the size of the
screen (a bit harder if you can't afford a good projection system).

Higher frame rate makes fast motions on the screen "move" instead
of "stutter". Larger screens fools the brain better since you see
less of the stationary surroundings.

A cheaper solution is to put a large fan on the top of your monitor :-)

      _
Mats Lofkvist

Jo Helse

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Jo Helse » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00


>hey brian-
>i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where are
>you? maybe we could form an online team....

>mark

Great! Now we will see the occasional

"OT: how do I reanimate my overrun fuelman?"

posts..  :-)

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

Alex Kihuran

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Alex Kihuran » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Ahh! My head hurts. You should of written a disclaimer about the kncoking
yourself in the head test :)

> 10 to 20 percent sure sounds high to me.

> I believe the fovea is about the area of a pinhead on your retina.
> Truely critical examination of an object (or, in most cases, a portion
> of an object) can occur only if the image falls on that area.  At normal
> reading distances, the the image of a colon ":" fills this area.  For
> example, to study the quotation marks on either side, the viewer must
> scan over to that location.

> Regarding Bills comment about the blurring, the best explanation I ever
> read was that the eye and brain connection equates to a camera with a
> bout a 1/10 second shutter speed.  The image of an object doesn't have
> to be moving that fast across the retina before it appears blurred.

> Check out the rotating blades of a fan or details of a rotating
> automobile wheel.  Slap yourself on the side of the head (temple works
> good for me) and the eyes are momentarily knocked in one direction,
> often causing the distinct image of the fan blades or wheel to come into
> view for a small fraction of a second.

> Reminds me of the need to pan the camera from to follow the moving
> object you're photographing to keep the image from looking smeared.




> > >Btw, from a medical student point of few,

> > >The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the
speed.
> > >Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not
accure. And

> > Exactly correct. There was a human anatomy series on the Discovery
Channel
> > in which the host (who is a Doctor) stated that only the center 10-20%
of
> > the image on your retina is optically in focus.  That wonderful
rendering
> > engine in between your ears interpolates the rest.

> > --
> >                     | "Instead of letting the moon be the
> > Bill Mette          |  gateway to our future, we have let
> > Enteract, Chicago   |  it become a brief chapter in our


GTX_SlotCa

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by GTX_SlotCa » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with the reason for the blurring. Not that
what everyone is saying about our eyes not being perfect, or about
peripheral vision is wrong, but just that in this case it's not the reason.
It's much simpler than that. Stare at a point on your monitor now and pass
your hand in front of it at a moderate speed (like you are waving). You hand
is blurred, but it's in your primary view. You simply are not following it
and are not focused on it. Your focus is about the same at 100 or 300 yards,
and, something  coming at you at that distance is easy for your eyes to
follow with very, very little movement because it's still in front of you.
Your focus at 1 foot and 3 feet is quite different. It's also different at
50 yards and 100 yards. As something gets closer and let's say is 30 yards
to you left, it's not easy to follow without large eye movements, and, your
focus is still, hopefully, 300 yards on the road ahead.

--

Slot
www.slottweak.com
Tweaks & Reviews



> Btw, from a medical student point of few,

> The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the speed.
> Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not accure.
And
> you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you said
> that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where you
> look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your
eyes.
> But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are
> blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;)



> > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway
> > rushing towards you at 200kph?
> > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this
> > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of
the
> > speed at which a racing car travels.

> > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"?

> > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)
> "Dad........why
> > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?"  He
> then
> > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by
> > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves
towards
> > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets
the
> > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the
> > road, the sh***y, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur.

> > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely
> > correct.

> > But this doesn't happen in a sim.  I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed
> down
> > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen
from
> > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as
clearly
> > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away.
> > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring
> > effect a all.

> > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer
could
> > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor.

> > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated?
> > I would be curious to read educated comment.

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

Tim Vanhe

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Tim Vanhe » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

The faster you move, the smaller you viewing angle becomes. This is one of
the few things I remember from the driving school. (that's one of the
reasons why you should drive slow in the city, that's what they told me, so
you could see much more around you)
when traveling at 30 mph you can have a viewing angle of  120(just guessing
here) while you move at 100 mph you can only have a viewing angle of  for
example 60.
I don't know a single sim wich does this. When you look to your left in gpl
you see the trees flashing by but you can clearly see textures, there is no
blurring at all.



Eldre

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Eldre » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00



>hey brian-
>i thought i was the only med student on here! nice to meet you.....where are
>you? maybe we could form an online team....

>mark

Team Stethoscope? :)

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes-GPLRank:345 and falling..

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

GTX_SlotCa

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by GTX_SlotCa » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Wasn't aimed directly at you, Brian, just at the point of view in general.
It may be what you meant, I had a hard time understanding. Still, your
English is better than my German ;-)

--

Slot
www.slottweak.com
Tweaks & Reviews



> Uhmm..isn't that what i said...your eyes are not 100% perfect;) Your eyes
> just can't follow it. Thre has been a simple test for this actually that
it
> are your eyes that can't follow it (similiar actually to your hanwaving).
> It's called nystagmus. Some poeple have this as a handicap. But normal
> poeple have signes of this too. Just think that you are sitting in a
> car...who what a related topic ;) And your starring out of the window and
> looking at nothing well see it as day dreaming. If you look at the iris of
> those poeple yuo will notice how busy they are going from left  to right
to
> follow the things..but they simply can't..if they could then you would
never
> have a blurred vision.

> Think i'm getting off topic now...read some neurological book or something
> to get more info on this ;)

> Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind



> > I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with the reason for the blurring. Not
> that
> > what everyone is saying about our eyes not being perfect, or about
> > peripheral vision is wrong, but just that in this case it's not the
> reason.
> > It's much simpler than that. Stare at a point on your monitor now and
pass
> > your hand in front of it at a moderate speed (like you are waving). You
> hand
> > is blurred, but it's in your primary view. You simply are not following
it
> > and are not focused on it. Your focus is about the same at 100 or 300
> yards,
> > and, something  coming at you at that distance is easy for your eyes to
> > follow with very, very little movement because it's still in front of
you.
> > Your focus at 1 foot and 3 feet is quite different. It's also different
at
> > 50 yards and 100 yards. As something gets closer and let's say is 30
yards
> > to you left, it's not easy to follow without large eye movements, and,
> your
> > focus is still, hopefully, 300 yards on the road ahead.

> > --

> > Slot
> > www.slottweak.com
> > Tweaks & Reviews



> > > Btw, from a medical student point of few,

> > > The blurring effect is because of your eyes and not because of the
> speed.
> > > Actually if yuor eyes where 100% perfect that blurring would not
accure.
> > And
> > > you can't control if a Sim gives a blurring effect actually. Like you
> said
> > > that you looked in GPL is actually fooling your own eyes. Cause where
> you
> > > look the image will be always focussed. That's just the nature of your
> > eyes.
> > > But maybe they will invent something...hack the real things that are
> > > blurring are not blurred in real life to or are they ;)



> > > > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a
roadway
> > > > rushing towards you at 200kph?
> > > > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray
this
> > > > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense
of
> > the
> > > > speed at which a racing car travels.

> > > > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as
"blurring"?

> > > > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)
> > > "Dad........why
> > > > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?"
He
> > > then
> > > > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to
him!)
> by
> > > > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves
> > towards
> > > > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it
gets
> > the
> > > > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of
> the
> > > > road, the sh***y, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur.

> > > > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is
absolutely
> > > > correct.

> > > > But this doesn't happen in a sim.  I fired up GPL tonight and, at
> speed
> > > down
> > > > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen
> > from
> > > > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as
> > clearly
> > > > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away.
> > > > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no
> blurring
> > > > effect a all.

> > > > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer
> > could
> > > > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor.

> > > > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated?
> > > > I would be curious to read educated comment.

> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Bruce Kennewell,
> > > > Canberra, Australia.
> > > > ---------------------------

Jon Crook

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Jon Crook » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Bruce,

You're a man I could sit down with for a chat. Welcome at Hyper anytime.

Regards
Jon Crooke

_____________________________________________
"THE WORLD'S BEST HOME RACING CAR SIMULATOR"
HYPER STIMULATOR INTERNATIONAL P/L
www.hyperstimulator.com



> Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway
> rushing towards you at 200kph?
> Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this
> sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of the
> speed at which a racing car travels.

> However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"?

> He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times) "Dad........why
> don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?"  He then
> went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by
> pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves towards
> you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets the
> more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the
> road, the sh***y, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur.

> I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely
> correct.

> But this doesn't happen in a sim.  I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed down
> Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen from
> the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as clearly
> defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away.
> I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring
> effect a all.

> It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer could
> look into would be to recreate this real-world factor.

> Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated?
> I would be curious to read educated comment.

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

Bruce Kennewel

Simulating Speed.....A Note To Developers.

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Yes...I see what you mean, Andrew. But even if what was on the periphery
(left and right-hand sides) of the screen was "blurred" for maybe 15 to 20
mm it would help the speed effect, domn't you think?

It's odd, but I get a better sensation of speed when playing GPL at 640 x
480 than I do when in 1024 x 768 resolution.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> Hi Bruce,

> I think what you're referring to is the optical effect which happens to
objects
> and scenery as they pass from your primary to your peripheral vision. I
think,
> therefore, that to do this successfully, a sim must expand to widescreen
or
> somehow show peripheral limits, or it would look goofy because not much in
your
> forward 45 degrees or so of "clear vision" *should* be blurry..

> Just a guess.

> Andrew


> > Have you ever considered how best to simulate the effect of a roadway
> > rushing towards you at 200kph?
> > Of course you have.....after all, part of your task it to portray this
> > sensation in a manner that will give the player an effective sense of
the
> > speed at which a racing car travels.

> > However, have you ever considered what my son refers to as "blurring"?

> > He said to me last night "Dad", (he calls me that at times)
"Dad........why
> > don't they BLUR the edges of the picture as it comes towards you?"  He
then
> > went on to explain this question (I obviously looked puzzled to him!) by
> > pointing out that when you are driving in a car, the scenery moves
towards
> > you at (what appears to be) increasing rapidity and the closer it gets
the
> > more blurred the periphery of the "picture" gets until the edges of the
> > road, the sh***y, posts, poles, etc. are simply a blur.

> > I tested this theory out today on the way to work and he is absolutely
> > correct.

> > But this doesn't happen in a sim.  I fired up GPL tonight and, at speed
down
> > Masta straight at Spa, those items on the edge of my vision (as seen
from
> > the viewpoint of the driver...not me sitting at my desk!) were as
clearly
> > defined as those items in the centre of the screen a kilometre away.
> > I tried it with ICR2, NASCAR3, SCGT...all the same: there is no blurring
> > effect a all.

> > It is therefore my opinion that one of the effects that a developer
could
> > look into would be to recreate this real-world factor.

> > Is this feasible? Can it be effectively simulated?
> > I would be curious to read educated comment.

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------


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