rec.autos.simulators

by **Alan L** » Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:21:39

I never understood why people say Papyrus' controller setup is heads and
tails above ISI's. ISI offers mostly the same adjustability (input momentum
is the difference that comes to mind) with different labels. I will give a
nod to Papyrus for making their layout more intuitive, but that doesn't make
it more configurable... unless of course someone simply doesn't bother to
find out how ISI's system works. The one thing Papyrus has handled better
(and maybe GTR has improved this) is multiple controllers. ISI's two
controller limitation can be frustrating.

Alan

by **Neil Charlto** » Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:17:35

This is exactly why Papy's is 'heads and tails' above ISI. Except .....

I have a momo force on ID1, Shifter on ID2 and BRD Speed7s on ID3 (all usb).
With XP, I can find no way of changing the ID # of the latter two. On the
F1C and NRS, it therefore means that my pedals are not recognised. With F1C
I could get round it by unplugging the shifter and using the momo paddles.
On NASCAR sims, I want to use the shifter but this means that I cannot use
my pedals in NSR. This is stupid - particularly so as GTR and rFactor allow
me to do this.

It appears from the demo that little if any development has happened since
F1C - we've even got a NASCAR sim without a solid rear axle. As a demo of a
piece of 2005 software, it's about as bad as I've seen. However, I'll wait
for reviews of the full package, particularly to look at the multiplayer,
but I'm not holding my breath.

Regards

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:04:52

> It appears from the demo that little if any development has happened since
> F1C - we've even got a NASCAR sim without a solid rear axle. As a demo of
> a piece of 2005 software, it's about as bad as I've seen. However, I'll
> wait for reviews of the full package, particularly to look at the
> multiplayer, but I'm not holding my breath.

> Regards

I feel the same way Neil. A very weak effort based on the demo. Ive not
seen many demos change much to the full release so Im not holding my breath
that this will be any different.

Aint no GTR ;)

Mitch
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by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:20:05

You can have every option in the world but if you still can't get a good
feel out of it then it doesn't matter.

I've got dozens of hours on it and I _still_ can't get it right.

Hoping the final is better.

-Larry

>> Exactly. How can you expect people to look up "controller +NSR2005"
>> when they just bought the same game for their hard earned money in
>> order to get it right?

>> If I bought a car, and had to do a google search before I could get it
>> to behave properly, I would have demanded a refund, fer crying out
>> loud.

>> ---A---

> The problem is...the controller code DOES work correctly. It works
> very well. ISI handles more axis, more buttons, more inputs and gives you
> dozens of options not even remotely available from Papyrus.
> But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if you
> buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it back?

> dave henrie

by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:21:07

The Papy way worked :) It's not the fact that it's Papy. It's the fact
that they got it (mostly) right.

-Larry

>> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie

>> > But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if
> you
>> >buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it
> back?

>> >dave henrie
>> Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?

> Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way papyrus
> did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration before
> they start complaining.

> Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
> controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.

> --
> David G Fisher

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 06 Feb 2005 08:19:29

Which is why you and I are scrapping our MS wheels because they are not able
to be configured properly in a papy sim to work well on rc's.

MS wheel works just fine in an ISI sim. :-)
--
David G Fisher

> The Papy way worked :) It's not the fact that it's Papy. It's the fact
> that they got it (mostly) right.

> -Larry

> >> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie

> >> > But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if
> > you
> >> >buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it
> > back?

> >> >dave henrie
> >> Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?

> > Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way
papyrus
> > did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration
before
> > they start complaining.

> > Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
> > controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.

> > --
> > David G Fisher

by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:02:04

Well, I haven't scrapped mine yet. Still thinking about it.

For me, it's fine for NASCAR. I think the 64-step resolution of the pedals
is killing me at Road Courses though.

-Larry

> Which is why you and I are scrapping our MS wheels because they are not
> able
> to be configured properly in a papy sim to work well on rc's.

> MS wheel works just fine in an ISI sim. :-)
> --
> David G Fisher

>> The Papy way worked :) It's not the fact that it's Papy. It's the fact
>> that they got it (mostly) right.

>> -Larry

>> >> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie

>> >> > But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So
>> >> > if
>> > you
>> >> >buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it
>> > back?

>> >> >dave henrie
>> >> Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?

>> > Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way
> papyrus
>> > did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration
> before
>> > they start complaining.

>> > Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
>> > controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.

>> > --
>> > David G Fisher

by **Asgeir Nesoe** » Tue, 08 Feb 2005 19:18:12

I cannot come up with ONE good reason why a controller setup for a given
game/sim shouldn't contain the following functionality:
1) The ability to cope with *any* number of axis' on *any* number of
game controllers
2) The choice of calibrating all axis' in-game OR OS, since some setups
are impossible to calibrate in OS (Logi FF with custom pedals for
instance, since Logi FF panel has no option for calibration of pedals)
3) The ability to adjust the slope of any axis, linear or logarithmic
both ways

I would say, given the *extremely*, almost ridiculously, simple
programming controllers with DirectInput, that there is simply NO EXCUSE
for not having these aspects of controller setup in *ANY* game out there.

I am OK with the ambition to let new customers race at the click of a
button as long as I can get all my stuff to work. Why is to such a
terrible thing to let customers choose whatever axis they have connected
to whatever function they like? Why is this so stupidously difficult to
do???

I would also claim that anyone contradicting me on this hasn't got a
complicated setup, OR the aptitude to see things from several angles.

The only game I have YET to see do this is GPL, albeit GPL is not
perfect by any means either. Slope is only controllable for steering,
for one.

---Asgeir---

>>Exactly. How can you expect people to look up "controller +NSR2005"
>>when they just bought the same game for their hard earned money in
>>order to get it right?

>>If I bought a car, and had to do a google search before I could get it
>>to behave properly, I would have demanded a refund, fer crying out
>>loud.

>>---A---

> The problem is...the controller code DOES work correctly. It works
> very well. ISI handles more axis, more buttons, more inputs and gives you
> dozens of options not even remotely available from Papyrus.
> But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if you
> buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it back?

> dave henrie