rec.autos.simulators

>Eric Franzen

>>> I keep seeing reference to "technology advances" over the last 31 years
>to
>>> explain the difference in the handling/driving experience of GPL vs
other
>>> racing sims.  Beyond tires and aero, what would those advances be, that
>>> would affect handling performance?

>>> If you removed the wings, scallops, and other appendages from the body
of
>a
>>> modern FI car and mounted bias ply treaded tires, and detuned the engine
>>> (since much of hp of a modern F1 is needed to overcome the drag of aero
>at
>>> speed) I wonder how much different it would handle.  Certainly better,
>what
>>> with somewhat better dampening (gas shocks and the ability to tune with
>>> shock dyno's, etc.) and perhaps braking, although I'm not sure how much
>>> advantage carbon carbon brakes would have without the added grip of the
>>> tires.  Certainly some.

>>I'm not really sure, but I guess a modern F1 car without aero would handle
>quite
>>rotten.
>>There is virtually no suspension travel. And just look at how they
scrabble
>for
>>grip whenever
>>they are on slow parts of a track!
>>Engine mapping and diff/gearbox development has also come further, so has
>the
>>abilty to control
>>weight bias and c/g, as well as suspension design in general.
>>A modern F1 car stripped of its tyres and aero would suffer, but If a car
>was
>>purposely designed
>>for no wings and wooden tires, it would be faster than the 60s equivalent.
>The
>>main problem would
>>be to keep the designers *off* the downforce subject <g>...

>>Nice topic!

>>More..?
>>:-D

>>Matt

>>--
>>-----------------------------------------
>>Matthew Knutsen

>>"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
>>http://www.racesimcentral.net/~kareknut/simrace1.htm
>>-----------------------------------------

> If you removed the wings, scallops, and other appendages from the body of a
> modern FI car and mounted bias ply treaded tires, and detuned the engine
> (since much of hp of a modern F1 is needed to overcome the drag of aero at
> speed) I wonder how much different it would handle.  Certainly better, what
> with somewhat better dampening (gas shocks and the ability to tune with
> shock dyno's, etc.) and perhaps braking, although I'm not sure how much
> advantage carbon carbon brakes would have without the added grip of the
> tires.  Certainly some.

>> I keep seeing reference to "technology advances" over the last 31 years to
>> explain the difference in the handling/driving experience of GPL vs other
>> racing sims.  Beyond tires and aero, what would those advances be, that
>> would affect handling performance?

>> If you removed the wings, scallops, and other appendages from the body of a
>> modern FI car and mounted bias ply treaded tires, and detuned the engine
>> (since much of hp of a modern F1 is needed to overcome the drag of aero at
>> speed) I wonder how much different it would handle.  Certainly better, what
>> with somewhat better dampening (gas shocks and the ability to tune with
>> shock dyno's, etc.) and perhaps braking, although I'm not sure how much
>> advantage carbon carbon brakes would have without the added grip of the
>> tires.  Certainly some.

>I'm not really sure, but I guess a modern F1 car without aero would handle quite
>rotten.
>There is virtually no suspension travel. And just look at how they scrabble for
>grip whenever
>they are on slow parts of a track!
>Engine mapping and diff/gearbox development has also come further, so has the
>abilty to control
>weight bias and c/g, as well as suspension design in general.
>A modern F1 car stripped of its tyres and aero would suffer, but If a car was
>purposely designed
>for no wings and wooden tires, it would be faster than the 60s equivalent. The
>main problem would
>be to keep the designers *off* the downforce subject <g>...

> >> I keep seeing reference to "technology advances" over the last 31 years to
> >> explain the difference in the handling/driving experience of GPL vs other
> >> racing sims.  Beyond tires and aero, what would those advances be, that
> >> would affect handling performance?

> >> If you removed the wings, scallops, and other appendages from the body of a
> >> modern FI car and mounted bias ply treaded tires, and detuned the engine
> >> (since much of hp of a modern F1 is needed to overcome the drag of aero at
> >> speed) I wonder how much different it would handle.  Certainly better, what
> >> with somewhat better dampening (gas shocks and the ability to tune with
> >> shock dyno's, etc.) and perhaps braking, although I'm not sure how much
> >> advantage carbon carbon brakes would have without the added grip of the
> >> tires.  Certainly some.

> >I'm not really sure, but I guess a modern F1 car without aero would handle quite
> >rotten.
> >There is virtually no suspension travel. And just look at how they scrabble for
> >grip whenever
> >they are on slow parts of a track!
> >Engine mapping and diff/gearbox development has also come further, so has the
> >abilty to control
> >weight bias and c/g, as well as suspension design in general.
> >A modern F1 car stripped of its tyres and aero would suffer, but If a car was
> >purposely designed
> >for no wings and wooden tires, it would be faster than the 60s equivalent. The
> >main problem would
> >be to keep the designers *off* the downforce subject <g>...

>   You guys are forgetting one important thing.  Modern F1 cars have
> immensely greater torsional stiffness than their '67 counterparts.  

>> I keep seeing reference to "technology advances" over the last 31 years
to
>> explain the difference in the handling/driving experience of GPL vs other
>> racing sims.  Beyond tires and aero, what would those advances be, that
>> would affect handling performance?

>> If you removed the wings, scallops, and other appendages from the body of
a
>> modern FI car and mounted bias ply treaded tires, and detuned the engine
>> (since much of hp of a modern F1 is needed to overcome the drag of aero
at
>> speed) I wonder how much different it would handle.  Certainly better,
what
>> with somewhat better dampening (gas shocks and the ability to tune with
>> shock dyno's, etc.) and perhaps braking, although I'm not sure how much
>> advantage carbon carbon brakes would have without the added grip of the
>> tires.  Certainly some.

>I'm not really sure, but I guess a modern F1 car without aero would handle
quite
>rotten.
>There is virtually no suspension travel. And just look at how they scrabble
for
>grip whenever
>they are on slow parts of a track!
>Engine mapping and diff/gearbox development has also come further, so has
the
>abilty to control
>weight bias and c/g, as well as suspension design in general.
>A modern F1 car stripped of its tyres and aero would suffer, but If a car
was
>purposely designed
>for no wings and wooden tires, it would be faster than the 60s equivalent.
The
>main problem would
>be to keep the designers *off* the downforce subject <g>...

>Nice topic!

>More..?
>:-D

>Matt

>--
>-----------------------------------------
>Matthew Knutsen

>"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
>http://home.sol.no/~kareknut/simrace1.htm
>-----------------------------------------

> : If you removed the wings, scallops, and other appendages from the body of a
> : modern FI car and mounted bias ply treaded tires, and detuned the engine
> : (since much of hp of a modern F1 is needed to overcome the drag of aero at
> : speed)

>>I keep seeing reference to "technology advances" over the last 31 years to
>>explain the difference in the handling/driving experience of GPL vs other
>>racing sims.  Beyond tires and aero, what would those advances be, that
>>would affect handling performance?

>Apart from the fact that both cars have 4 wheels and a steering wheel
>they don't have much in common anymore even if you would remove wings
>and replace the tyres with something else. Even without the wings the
>underside of a F1 car produces an incredible amount of downforce and
>the whole bodywork serves aerodynamic purposes. Ride height is very
>low and suspension is extremely stiff, brakes are just a totally
>different dimension either and the engine works in a completely
>different way as well producing not only more hp but also twice as
>much rpm at relatively little torque. Keep in mind we're talking about
>30+ years of technology here. And F1 is certainly the most
>sophisticated and technical advanced motorsport today.

>--Tel