rec.autos.simulators

by **Eric Cot** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

HATS OFF to Grant Reeve, not only he fixed problems for the Nvidia cards
users but he also fixed the bug afflicting 2X FSAA with the Glide
Rasterizer for the V5 5500.

Just compiled a small report about it at

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Eric

:-)

> An unsupported BETA Direct3D Rasterizer is now available for GPL on
> the Papy website: www.papy.com Please read the included readmeD3D.txt
> for details. Users with NVidia cards should find the performance to
> be much improved over the OpenGL patch, though you will need to
> upgrade to at least the 5.22 reference Detonator2 drivers. DirectX7
> is also required.

> Eric/Papyrus

by **themightyp..** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

super awesome although the lod bias is kinda screwy in d3d on the v5
and you can see a definite line where they change. I suspect this will
be fixable when 3dfx fixes their d3d drivers to include a lodbias
setting.

I just love the fact that people at papy (even on their spare time) are
working on GPL still.

Christian H>

> HATS OFF to Grant Reeve, not only he fixed problems for the Nvidia
cards
> users but he also fixed the bug afflicting 2X FSAA with the Glide
> Rasterizer for the V5 5500.

> Just compiled a small report about it at

> http://www.simracingmag.com

> Eric

> :-)

> > An unsupported BETA Direct3D Rasterizer is now available for GPL on
> > the Papy website: www.papy.com Please read the included
readmeD3D.txt
> > for details. Users with NVidia cards should find the performance to
> > be much improved over the OpenGL patch, though you will need to
> > upgrade to at least the 5.22 reference Detonator2 drivers. DirectX7
> > is also required.

> > Eric/Papyrus

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You guys are the gods of racing sims. Thanks for releasing this two days
before I was scheduled to pick up my V5 :) ...a compromise decision because
I refused to debilitate my GPL no matter what other qualities were available
in other cards. Now I can reconsider and have a much wider choice of
hardware.

I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other unfinished sims
out there) likely-never-to-be-patched remember this and the disco patch and
the FFB patch and all the other passionate work that comes out of your shop.
The best, most polished sims at release date...and they just keep getting
better with age (and a lot of amazing work from you and from the dedicated
and talented fans who do the add-ons).

Bravo!

Marc.

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> Thank God, now we can truly put the "I just bought a TNT thread to
> rest..."
> To Grant Reeve, I say thanks. Eric and Rich and all the
> rest of you...keep up the Good(CART) Work!

LOL, and I can change one of the answers on the upcoming FAQ

Q. How do I get GPL to work on my (insert NVidia based card here) ?

A: DL the D3D path from Papy.........:-)

WTG guys, and to Grant in particular, THANKS !!!

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You know Marc, this is just the type of post which causes people like me to
dismiss the GPL crowd.

I'm supposed to learn something from the release of this D3D patch?

The game should of been released with D3D TWO YEARS ago.

It should of had ff two years ago.

A patch to fix the disco's shouldn't have taken two years. Since most of the
GPL fan club members insisted I was an a**hole for insisting there even was
a disco problem, I'm amazed that a patch was needed. I thought I was
absolutely, positively, wrong about GPL disconnects?

Add up all those hours people like me had to deal with those missing
ingredients, and give them back to us, and then I'll be grateful to Papyrus.

There will be a new F12000 within a year (not two). MF released a number of
patches soon after the release of RC2000 (and was criticized by the GPL
crowd for doing so). Other developers support their products too.

BTW, this post IS NOT a criticism of the actual people who made the patches
and the game, it is a criticism of the people who decided these patches had
to be made in someone's spare time, and caused the long delay.

David G Fisher

by **Trevo** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Many many thanks Grant Reeve and Papyrus. Excellent!! The game flies
on my GF2.

by **Kai Fulle** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Let me reply to some of your points below... keeping in mind once again that
I don't own GPL, so I'm rather unbiased.

to dismiss the GPL crowd.
(and so on and so forth about the force feedback and disco's which can be
read below)

When GPL came out with Glide support glide was almost becoming and insudtry
standard like the Sound Blaster cards, and everything else out there was
rendition. Shortly after release, and out of papy's hands, rebdition fell
off the face of the earth, and Microsoft made thier standard, well standard.

During this papy saw that may users were being left out and made a choice
about a year after relase of the game to put out a OpenGL patch, this really
didn't work out that well, but ayt least they were supporting everyone now.
Now it's 2 years later and they've put out a D3D patch, so that there is
greater support for current graphics cards.

As for force feedback, they waioted because they didn't think the current
force feedback was quite ready, untill about a year later they got it tuned
out, this si a wuakity of product issue.

The Disco patch? 2 years ago... Do you realise that multiplayer programing
and coding continues to get better, therefore the knowledge for this patch
wasn't really out there 2 years ago, now that they'[ve had more experince,
espesially with N4, they've put out a patch for free so that we can better
enjoy thier game. People could still be right in saying that there isn't a
disco problem in GPL, but the patch was nice...

1. It dosn't happen to them, but it's a problem for others with lesser
connections.

2. It's not really a problem so to speak, but it does happen on occasion, so
it's nice to see it get fixed up.

You really think that EA sports is going to continue to support say SCGT
with new graphics drivers and nrew technology support down the road as papy
has done? Heck the patch ISI put out wasn't even put up on EA's site for
quite awhile after its release.

In your thinking, there is a flaw in the slaw. You've built up so much
aingst against the GPL crowd that if at any point someone praised GPL over
some other game fore whatever reason ture or flase, you just jump all over
it. Lets face it there is a a lot of truth being said by the supporters of
GPL, it's is the most accurate sim out there.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

F1 2000 is an embarrassment that needs to be patched officially for a
variety of reasons. I am not interested in buying F1 2001 to get what I
should have had in 2000. This is completely different than adding features
and support that were not supposed to be in the original version (and not
advertised), but that enhance the product.

RC2000 is another embarrassment. I worked with MF on the original RAC RC
(it had no analogue controller support and I insisted that it should have it
and tested it for them) and have stated that although they release a lot of
patches for their products, at least they patch!! RC 2000, however, is a
joke--a non-existent damage model in a rally title??? It was clear from the
beginning that the lack of damage was due to inadequate or non-existent
programming for a realistic damage model...and they should have just
admitted that. It is strange, though, that with so much attention to detail
in some areas, that another (damage) could be completely botched/overlooked.

You can dismiss the "GPL crowd" (not that I have ever fit into a crowd very
well) if you want. GPL is the only sim available to have anything
resembling real world physics and it produced by the only (racing sim)
company that I know of that continues to support it's products long after
the sales curve has dropped into the darkness. GPL has a few flaws that are
annoying, but since it is in a class of one (hopefully soon to be joined by
many more), it will continue to have a fanatical following amongst the type
of people who frequent r.a.s.

Marc.

> > I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other unfinished
> sims
> > out there) likely-never-to-be-patched remember this

> You know Marc, this is just the type of post which causes people like me
to
> dismiss the GPL crowd.

> I'm supposed to learn something from the release of this D3D patch?

> The game should of been released with D3D TWO YEARS ago.

> It should of had ff two years ago.

> A patch to fix the disco's shouldn't have taken two years. Since most of
the
> GPL fan club members insisted I was an a**hole for insisting there even
was
> a disco problem, I'm amazed that a patch was needed. I thought I was
> absolutely, positively, wrong about GPL disconnects?

> Add up all those hours people like me had to deal with those missing
> ingredients, and give them back to us, and then I'll be grateful to
Papyrus.

> There will be a new F12000 within a year (not two). MF released a number
of
> patches soon after the release of RC2000 (and was criticized by the GPL
> crowd for doing so). Other developers support their products too.

> BTW, this post IS NOT a criticism of the actual people who made the
patches
> and the game, it is a criticism of the people who decided these patches
had
> to be made in someone's spare time, and caused the long delay.

> David G Fisher

> >and the disco patch and
> > the FFB patch and all the other passionate work that comes out of your
> shop.
> > The best, most polished sims at release date...and they just keep
getting
> > better with age (and a lot of amazing work from you and from the
dedicated
> > and talented fans who do the add-ons).

> > Bravo!

> > Marc.

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

standard.

CPR (as one example) had D3D a full year before GPL was released. Racing
games like MTM2 (released six months before GPL) also had D3D.

It took a full year to realize this? Gee. Thanks. Most developers had long
since gone to D3D.

now.

After say, 99% of the people who bought it had long ago left it on the
shelf.

Like I said, D3D has been around for three years now.

CPR and MTM2 had ff and it worked well. So did many others. Papyrus
employees stated ff was a joke (actually much harsher in their criticism)
until all of a sudden it appeared in a patch. Maybe if they had a more open
minded attitude, it would of been included much sooner.

I've been playing racing games/sims online for three years now going all the
way back to Ubi Soft's POD. POD, CPR , MTM2, Powerslide, DTR, etc. Despite
their age, all performed excellent online. God knows how many races I've
had. Never had disconnect problems with any of them except GPL.

It is/was a problem. That's why a patch was made by the developer.

No, I expect them to have all new games within two years. I'll take an all
new sim over a patch for a two year old sim any day. F12000 was made in just
nine months. Very impressive accomplishment. A patch soon afterward that
massively improved the AI, and added features. Yet people here are
criticizing ISI?

(yawn) I haven't had an angst ridden second in my life due to the GPL crowd.
Sorry.

LOL. I responded to his CRITICISM of other developers. Not his praise of
Papyrus.

Huuuuge difference.

There are others who praised Papyrus in this thread. THE ONE AND ONLY reason
I even responded to Marc's post was that during his praise of GPL, HE felt
the need to put down the excellent F12000 and other developers with the
following quote during his praise of Papyrus.

"I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other unfinished
sims
out there)..." He then gave reasons for doing so by citing patches which
should have come out long ago.

It's obvious why fans of GPL have this overwhelming desire to constantly
downgrade other sims and developers. I'd advise them to ask their
psychiatrist.

Again, I am not criticizing the men who made the patch. They did these in
their spare time.

David G Fisher

- Show quoted text -

by **Eric Cot** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> > I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other unfinished
> sims
> > out there) likely-never-to-be-patched remember this

> You know Marc, this is just the type of post which causes people like me to
> dismiss the GPL crowd.

> I'm supposed to learn something from the release of this D3D patch?

> The game should of been released with D3D TWO YEARS ago.

<snip>

May I add that back when GPL came out DirectX was version 5.x if not mistaken,
problem with this and D3D is simple : each manufacturer of video cards implement

there own D3D, thus the software engineers had to actually build codes for each
and every manufacturer (more or less), for example (not the best but..) Ubisoft
had to create patches over patches to address that problem for D3D mode.

Now since DirectX is now 7.0 / 7.0a, the problem is gone... there's a standard
that
now rules D3D , so software engineer don't need to tweak the coding for a
specific issue.

As for Force Feedback... when GPL came out (was in the first "batch" to buy it)
Force Feedback wheel were unpopular to say the least, I believe there was only
one manufacturer (or 2) that started to sell, then came Microsoft and Logitech,
then the
Force Feedback became quite popular, this basically happened 6 months after GPL
was released.

Long live Papyrus , Dave Kaemer, Randy Cassidy and all others :)

Eric

http://www.simracingmag.com

by **Kai Fulle** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

replies below

I didn't say D3D didn't exist, but it was a definiate time of uncertanty for
3D API's a lot of games made the same gamble they did. It wasn't lack of
support, which is what we're talking about here. Papy choose glide and
rendition (which was to support all the people who bought thier prvious
rendition games)

They may not have even known that D3D would work better than OGL for this
game. It's not like OGL is so much more terrible than D3D in say Homewoerld,
I can't tell the differance. So your supposed to put full developer
resources into making the D3D rast? I'm sure this has been worked on for
awhile, and is now coming out. They didn't just throw it together over the
weekend.

that's sales figures, that's nice that Papy is still supporting the 1% of
folks who bought thioer game 2 years later. Thanks for makinbg my point.

I remember them saying the current technology wasn't good enough for GPL,
that's fine. and MTM2 isn't exacly a sim, it's more like fun force feedback
than totally real. They were alsop very concerned about delay. They were
concerned about quality of product. It's a good thing they didn't listen to
you and throw in every half ass technology, it wouldn't have been as good of
a game.

Those games have less participants and less CPU load. The main reason GPL
dumps is because the CPU gets bogged down by the physics model.

seen any NTN2 or CPR patches lately? Your throwing a new sim at each
question trying to compete with GPL here, I'm noy a big fan of GPL, but I
have to say...

Yeah, why give people a free patch, when you can get forty more bucks out of
ya? I like that customer relatrions, esspesially since I'm made out of
money. Making people pay for patches is a big problem. As for F12k, it was a
rehash of SCGT, with patches that should ahve been in SCGT. You wanna talk
about stuff you shjould have gotten when you bought it? How about internet
play that worlks as promised? Downloadable cars of the net? Headlights that
work. A damage model. But why put out a patch, when you can sell a new game
with 1 new car put FIA on it and make somre real cash! There's the
critisizm.

really, based on refeances to the past, and curent comments, you seem pretty
bent out of shape to me.

GPL really does do the best at simulation the physics of a real car on the
market. Those of us who really want to drive a simulator just aren't going
to drive games drom developers who think they need to dumb down the physics
for us. They are here fir the rec,.autos.SIMULATORS... I don't think that on
the basis of physics that there is much dispute there. Obviously your
feeling are deep seeded, because recently, NFS:PU was given a lot of
undisputed credit, without much of the GPL comparisons.

by **Kai Fulle** » Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:00:00

wow sorry I forgot to reread and spell check it, that's all in my short-type
spelling... like "critisize" just my way of typing what I'm thinking
quickly.

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:00:00

D3D in CART:PR was pathetic. FFB in CART:PR is so far in sophistication
from that in GPL, they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. Any
part of MTM2 shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as GPL. Papy could
do anything they wanted, but fortunately they seem to hold back on features
or support unless they can do it well.

Yes, an initial lack of D3D support in GPL was a mistake that cost sales and
headaches for many. Now it has been addressed. When are the equally
serious and well known flaws in CART:PR, F1 2000, RC 2000, etc., etc. going
to be addressed?

Marc.

> > Let me reply to some of your points below... keeping in mind once again
> that
> > I don't own GPL, so I'm rather unbiased.

> > > > I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other
> > >>unfinished sims out there) likely-never-to-be-patched remember >>this

> > > You know Marc, this is just the type of post which causes people like
me
> > to dismiss the GPL crowd.
> > > I'm supposed to learn something from the release of this D3D >patch?
> > (and so on and so forth about the force feedback and disco's which can
be
> > read below)

> > When GPL came out with Glide support glide was almost becoming and
> insudtry
> > standard like the Sound Blaster cards, and everything else out there was
> > rendition. Shortly after release, and out of papy's hands, rebdition
fell
> > off the face of the earth, and Microsoft made thier standard, well
> standard.

> CPR (as one example) had D3D a full year before GPL was released. Racing
> games like MTM2 (released six months before GPL) also had D3D.

> > During this papy saw that may users were being left out and made a
choice
> > about a year after relase of the game to put out a OpenGL patch,

> It took a full year to realize this? Gee. Thanks. Most developers had long
> since gone to D3D.

> > this really
> > didn't work out that well, but ayt least they were supporting everyone
> now.

> After say, 99% of the people who bought it had long ago left it on the
> shelf.

> > Now it's 2 years later and they've put out a D3D patch, so that there is
> > greater support for current graphics cards.

> Like I said, D3D has been around for three years now.

> > As for force feedback, they waioted because they didn't think the
current
> > force feedback was quite ready, untill about a year later they got it
> tuned
> > out, this si a wuakity of product issue.

> CPR and MTM2 had ff and it worked well. So did many others. Papyrus
> employees stated ff was a joke (actually much harsher in their criticism)
> until all of a sudden it appeared in a patch. Maybe if they had a more
open
> minded attitude, it would of been included much sooner.

> > The Disco patch? 2 years ago... Do you realise that multiplayer
programing
> > and coding continues to get better, therefore the knowledge for this
patch
> > wasn't really out there 2 years ago, now that they'[ve had more
experince,
> > espesially with N4, they've put out a patch for free so that we can
better
> > enjoy thier game. People could still be right in saying that there isn't
a
> > disco problem in GPL, but the patch was nice...

> I've been playing racing games/sims online for three years now going all
the
> way back to Ubi Soft's POD. POD, CPR , MTM2, Powerslide, DTR, etc. Despite
> their age, all performed excellent online. God knows how many races I've
> had. Never had disconnect problems with any of them except GPL.

> > 1. It dosn't happen to them, but it's a problem for others with lesser
> > connections.
> > 2. It's not really a problem so to speak, but it does happen on
occasion,
> so
> > it's nice to see it get fixed up.

> It is/was a problem. That's why a patch was made by the developer.

> > You really think that EA sports is going to continue to support say SCGT
> > with new graphics drivers and nrew technology support down the road as
> papy
> > has done? Heck the patch ISI put out wasn't even put up on EA's site for
> > quite awhile after its release.

> No, I expect them to have all new games within two years. I'll take an all
> new sim over a patch for a two year old sim any day. F12000 was made in
just
> nine months. Very impressive accomplishment. A patch soon afterward that
> massively improved the AI, and added features. Yet people here are
> criticizing ISI?

> > In your thinking, there is a flaw in the slaw. You've built up so much
> > aingst against the GPL crowd

> (yawn) I haven't had an angst ridden second in my life due to the GPL
crowd.
> Sorry.

> >that if at any point someone praised GPL over
> > some other game fore whatever reason ture or flase, you just jump all
over
> > it. Lets face it there is a a lot of truth being said by the supporters
of
> > GPL, it's is the most accurate sim out there.

> LOL. I responded to his CRITICISM of other developers. Not his praise of
> Papyrus.

> Huuuuge difference.

> There are others who praised Papyrus in this thread. THE ONE AND ONLY
reason
> I even responded to Marc's post was that during his praise of GPL, HE felt
> the need to put down the excellent F12000 and other developers with the
> following quote during his praise of Papyrus.

> "I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other unfinished
> sims
> out there)..." He then gave reasons for doing so by citing patches which
> should have come out long ago.

> It's obvious why fans of GPL have this overwhelming desire to constantly
> downgrade other sims and developers. I'd advise them to ask their
> psychiatrist.

> Again, I am not criticizing the men who made the patch. They did these in
> their spare time.

> David G Fisher

> > > The game should of been released with D3D TWO YEARS ago.

> > > It should of had ff two years ago.

> > > A patch to fix the disco's shouldn't have taken two years. Since most
of
> > the
> > > GPL fan club members insisted I was an a**hole for insisting there
even
> > was
> > > a disco problem, I'm amazed that a patch was needed. I thought I was
> > > absolutely, positively, wrong about GPL disconnects?

> > > Add up all those hours people like me had to deal with those missing
> > > ingredients, and give them back to us, and then I'll be grateful to
> > Papyrus.

> > > There will be a new F12000 within a year (not two). MF released a
number
> > of
> > > patches soon after the release of RC2000 (and was criticized by the
GPL
> > > crowd for doing so). Other developers support their products too.

> > > BTW, this post IS NOT a criticism of the actual people who made the
> > patches
> > > and the game, it is a criticism of the people who decided these
patches
> > had
> > > to be made in someone's spare time, and caused the long delay.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > >and the disco patch and
> > > > the FFB patch and all the other passionate work that comes out of
your
> > > shop.
> > > > The best, most polished sims at release date...and they just keep
> > getting
> > > > better with age (and a lot of amazing work from you and from the
> > dedicated
> > > > and talented fans who do the add-ons).

> > > > Bravo!

> > > > Marc.

by **David G Fishe** » Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:00:00

According to your posts in this thread, every other sim is an
"embarrassment", "pathetic", or unmentionable in comparison to GPL.

Wow. All you developers out there.......quit your job and don't even bother
getting out of bed anymore.

David G Fisher

"Marc Collins" <marc_coll...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:Zbe55.151065$uw6.2639026@news20.bellglobal.com...

> D3D in CART:PR was pathetic. FFB in CART:PR is so far in sophistication
> from that in GPL, they shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. Any
> part of MTM2 shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as GPL. Papy
could
> do anything they wanted, but fortunately they seem to hold back on
features
> or support unless they can do it well.

> Yes, an initial lack of D3D support in GPL was a mistake that cost sales
and
> headaches for many. Now it has been addressed. When are the equally
> serious and well known flaws in CART:PR, F1 2000, RC 2000, etc., etc.
going
> to be addressed?

> Marc.

> "David G Fisher" <dav...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Dma55.18561$A%3.202735@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...

> > "Kai Fuller" <k...@olypen.com> wrote in message
> > news:1x955.221410$MB.4014791@news6.giganews.com...
> > > Let me reply to some of your points below... keeping in mind once
again
> > that
> > > I don't own GPL, so I'm rather unbiased.

> > > > > I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other
> > > >>unfinished sims out there) likely-never-to-be-patched remember
>>this

> > > > You know Marc, this is just the type of post which causes people
like
> me
> > > to dismiss the GPL crowd.
> > > > I'm supposed to learn something from the release of this D3D >patch?
> > > (and so on and so forth about the force feedback and disco's which
can
> be
> > > read below)

> > > When GPL came out with Glide support glide was almost becoming and
> > insudtry
> > > standard like the Sound Blaster cards, and everything else out there
was
> > > rendition. Shortly after release, and out of papy's hands, rebdition
> fell
> > > off the face of the earth, and Microsoft made thier standard, well
> > standard.

> > CPR (as one example) had D3D a full year before GPL was released. Racing
> > games like MTM2 (released six months before GPL) also had D3D.

> > > During this papy saw that may users were being left out and made a
> choice
> > > about a year after relase of the game to put out a OpenGL patch,

> > It took a full year to realize this? Gee. Thanks. Most developers had
long
> > since gone to D3D.

> > > this really
> > > didn't work out that well, but ayt least they were supporting everyone
> > now.

> > After say, 99% of the people who bought it had long ago left it on the
> > shelf.

> > > Now it's 2 years later and they've put out a D3D patch, so that there
is
> > > greater support for current graphics cards.

> > Like I said, D3D has been around for three years now.

> > > As for force feedback, they waioted because they didn't think the
> current
> > > force feedback was quite ready, untill about a year later they got it
> > tuned
> > > out, this si a wuakity of product issue.

> > CPR and MTM2 had ff and it worked well. So did many others. Papyrus
> > employees stated ff was a joke (actually much harsher in their
criticism)
> > until all of a sudden it appeared in a patch. Maybe if they had a more
> open
> > minded attitude, it would of been included much sooner.

> > > The Disco patch? 2 years ago... Do you realise that multiplayer
> programing
> > > and coding continues to get better, therefore the knowledge for this
> patch
> > > wasn't really out there 2 years ago, now that they'[ve had more
> experince,
> > > espesially with N4, they've put out a patch for free so that we can
> better
> > > enjoy thier game. People could still be right in saying that there
isn't
> a
> > > disco problem in GPL, but the patch was nice...

> > I've been playing racing games/sims online for three years now going all
> the
> > way back to Ubi Soft's POD. POD, CPR , MTM2, Powerslide, DTR, etc.
Despite
> > their age, all performed excellent online. God knows how many races I've
> > had. Never had disconnect problems with any of them except GPL.

> > > 1. It dosn't happen to them, but it's a problem for others with lesser
> > > connections.
> > > 2. It's not really a problem so to speak, but it does happen on
> occasion,
> > so
> > > it's nice to see it get fixed up.

> > It is/was a problem. That's why a patch was made by the developer.

> > > You really think that EA sports is going to continue to support say
SCGT
> > > with new graphics drivers and nrew technology support down the road as
> > papy
> > > has done? Heck the patch ISI put out wasn't even put up on EA's site
for
> > > quite awhile after its release.

> > No, I expect them to have all new games within two years. I'll take an
all
> > new sim over a patch for a two year old sim any day. F12000 was made in
> just
> > nine months. Very impressive accomplishment. A patch soon afterward that
> > massively improved the AI, and added features. Yet people here are
> > criticizing ISI?

> > > In your thinking, there is a flaw in the slaw. You've built up so much
> > > aingst against the GPL crowd

> > (yawn) I haven't had an angst ridden second in my life due to the GPL
> crowd.
> > Sorry.

> > >that if at any point someone praised GPL over
> > > some other game fore whatever reason ture or flase, you just jump all
> over
> > > it. Lets face it there is a a lot of truth being said by the
supporters
> of
> > > GPL, it's is the most accurate sim out there.

> > LOL. I responded to his CRITICISM of other developers. Not his praise of
> > Papyrus.

> > Huuuuge difference.

> > There are others who praised Papyrus in this thread. THE ONE AND ONLY
> reason
> > I even responded to Marc's post was that during his praise of GPL, HE
felt
> > the need to put down the excellent F12000 and other developers with the
> > following quote during his praise of Papyrus.

> > "I hope people using F12000 beta retail (and all of the other unfinished
> > sims
> > out there)..." He then gave reasons for doing so by citing patches which
> > should have come out long ago.

> > It's obvious why fans of GPL have this overwhelming desire to constantly
> > downgrade other sims and developers. I'd advise them to ask their
> > psychiatrist.

> > Again, I am not criticizing the men who made the patch. They did these
in
> > their spare time.

> > David G Fisher

> > > > The game should of been released with D3D TWO YEARS ago.

> > > > It should of had ff two years ago.

> > > > A patch to fix the disco's shouldn't have taken two years. Since
most
> of
> > > the
> > > > GPL fan club members insisted I was an a**hole for insisting there
> even
> > > was
> > > > a disco problem, I'm amazed that a patch was needed. I thought I was
> > > > absolutely, positively, wrong about GPL disconnects?

> > > > Add up all those hours people like me had to deal with those missing
> > > > ingredients, and give them back to us, and then I'll be grateful to
> > > Papyrus.

> > > > There will be a new F12000 within a year (not two). MF released a
> number
> > > of
> > > > patches soon after the release of RC2000 (and was criticized by the
> GPL
> > > > crowd for doing so). Other developers support their products too.

> > > > BTW, this post IS NOT a criticism of the actual people who made the
> > > patches
> > > > and the game, it is a criticism of the people who decided these
> patches
> > > had
> > > > to be made in someone's spare time, and caused the long delay.

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > > >and the disco patch and
> > > > > the FFB patch and all the other passionate work that comes out of
> your
> > > > shop.
> > > > > The best, most polished sims at release date...and they just keep
> > > getting
> > > > > better with age (and a lot of amazing work from you and from the
> > > dedicated
> > > > > and talented fans who do the add-ons).

> > > > > Bravo!

> > > > > Marc.

by jb » Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:00:00

wonderful!!

jb

rec.autos.simulators

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer

GPL Direct3D Rasterizer