rec.autos.simulators

by **David Pe** » Thu, 09 Feb 1995 21:33:41

Has anyone had a problem with computer cars shoving you off the track. I
have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and even
to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This even
happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them off
the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write.

by **Robert Pearson (B** » Sun, 12 Feb 1995 06:49:00

>Has anyone had a problem with computer cars shoving you off the track. I
>have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and even
>to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This even
>happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them off
>the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write.

Yeah, I find them to be very pushy, especially in corners. I feel like I am
cheating when I punt them off the track--and since I do not play with the
invincability on I sometimes suffer from their aggressivity.
But you know, backmarkers like Pierlugi (The Mobile-Chicane) Martini can be
difficult to pass in the real F1. So maybe F1GP is just too realistic when
it comes to passing backmarkers. :)

Bob P

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Robert H Pearson (Bob) + The simple fact is that just the moment he |

+ Montreal, Quebec, Canada + with her. Stephen Leacock +
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

by **Simon Goodw** » Sun, 12 Feb 1995 03:41:14

>Has anyone had a problem with computer cars shoving you off the track. I
>have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and even
>to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This even
>happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them off
>the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write.

This seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of Crammond's (the programmer) AI
routine. The computer opponents attempt to stay on the best racing 'line'
(which you can view by turning on the 'best line' help feature) and if you are
not past a certain point (i.e. if your front wheels only reach the computer
cars'***pit) the car will act as if you are not there and push you off. If
however you are almost even with the opponent (i.e. your front wheels almost
reach his) the car will back off and give you racing room. Although this
annoyed me at first, it is not unlike being caught in the blind spot of an
inattentive driver, causing a shunt, as in real racing.

Solution? Make clean passes and don't take your opponents' racing skills for
granted!

Cheers. Simon.

by **Scott Wills** » Mon, 13 Feb 1995 02:11:15

(Robert Pearson (Bob)) writes:

(David Peno) writes...
>>Has anyone had a problem with computer cars shoving you off the track.
I
>>have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and
even
>>to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This
even
>>happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them
off
>>the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write.

>Yeah, I find them to be very pushy, especially in corners. I feel like
I am
>cheating when I punt them off the track--and since I do not play with
the
>invincability on I sometimes suffer from their aggressivity.
>But you know, backmarkers like Pierlugi (The Mobile-Chicane) Martini
can be
>difficult to pass in the real F1. So maybe F1GP is just too realistic
when
>it comes to passing backmarkers. :)

>Bob P

>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+
>| Robert H Pearson (Bob) + The simple fact is that just the moment
he |

clean, +

|
>+ Montreal, Quebec, Canada + with her. Stephen
Leacock +
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+

I tend to push them off at the corners, too. I don't have invincibility
on, either, so once in awhile they will shoot back across the track and
take me out, but it usually works to my benefit to nudge them out of the
way rather than let them hold me up forever. This is especially true
when trying to catch up to the leader.

Scott
--
Ayrton Senna da Silva 1960-1994

...that yellow helmet dancing into view-
going faster and faster...

by **Scott Wills** » Thu, 16 Feb 1995 03:34:31

(Herbert Pohlai) writes:

(Simon Goodwin) writes:

(David Peno) writes:
>|>
>|> >Has anyone had a problem with computer cars shoving you off the
track. I
>|> >have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and
even
>|> >to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This
even
>|> >happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting
them off
>|> >the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write.
>|>
>|> This seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of Crammond's (the
programmer) AI
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>NO! It simulates the real thing!

>|> routine. The computer opponents attempt to stay on the best racing
'line'
>|> (which you can view by turning on the 'best line' help feature) and
if you are
>|> not past a certain point (i.e. if your front wheels only reach the
computer
>|> cars'***pit) the car will act as if you are not there and push you
off. If
>|> however you are almost even with the opponent (i.e. your front
wheels almost
>|> reach his) the car will back off and give you racing room.

>And that's exactly how real Formula I fighting works!
>Due to an unwritten F1 law, the first one entering a turn has the right
to
>stay on the best line - and this usually means he pulls to the inside
and
>the 'looser' will have to hit the brakes HARD to avoid a collision...

>It's not discussed very often nowadays (since there are no tough wheel
vs. wheel
>attacks due to the great advantage of Bennetton), but in the 'good old
racing days',
>with Mansell vs. Prost vs. Senna, such actions happened every other
corner ;-)
>(several lead to collisions when the looser didn't back off, and
usually the
>collision was considered to be his fault!)

>The AI of F1GP is absolute perfect - maybe too perfect: I've seen too
few
>driver errors during my several thousand laps in F1GP. But I have never
seen
>a single unexpected or unfair move of the AI.

> Herbert

>PS: I prefer ICR at the moment, it's AI is definitely much weaker
compared with F1GP.
>--

I think that it is overagressive with regard to the backmarkers, though.
It's one thing to have to battle wheel to wheel with some guy you are
trying to overtake, but when you are the leader, having the guy in 24th
spot try to push you around is not so great. It *does* happen in racing,
but not with that kind of frequency.

Scott
--
Ayrton Senna da Silva 1960-1994

...that yellow helmet dancing into view-
going faster and faster...

by **King** » Fri, 17 Feb 1995 05:44:33

<The AI of F1GP is absolute perfect - maybe too perfect: I've seen too few
<driver errors during my several thousand laps in F1GP. But I have never
seen
<a single unexpected or unfair move of the AI.

I think that the AI is week on several counts.
1st- its very easy to overtake going into a corner by breaking late. True
in F1 or and racing the one who breaks last usually will take the corner
but its too easy to outbreak a top car in F1GP.
2nd - As mentioned in a previous post, slow F1GP cars make no consessions
for getting out of the way of race leaders when being lapped. Last year
everyone cleared out for MS at Spain when he had only 5th gear! If the
didn't move away it is unlikely that he could have taken most of them in
the slow corners
3rd - Although you can out break in F1GP the AI cars still have no respect
for you if you take the corner. I real racing the corner does not belong
to whoever lead's going into a corner but really to the one who breaks
last going into a corner.

Of course in F1GP you can usually punt off those AI cars that don't
respect you whithout suffering too much damage.

king

by **King** » Fri, 17 Feb 1995 05:45:08

. I
|> >I have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and
even
|> >to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This
even
|> >happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them
off
|> >the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write

The AI cars do seem to want that line even on the straights. So what if
they are slightly ahead. I a real race even Eddie Irvine wouldn't be
allowed to do that. Of course Mika Might.
king

by **David Zuide** » Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:11:08

>Subject: Re: Agressive Computer Cars in F1GP?
>Date: 15 Feb 1995 15:45:08 -0500
>. I
>|> >I have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and
>even
>|> >to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This
>even
>|> >happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them
>off
>|> >the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write
>The AI cars do seem to want that line even on the straights. So what if
>they are slightly ahead. I a real race even Eddie Irvine wouldn't be
>allowed to do that. Of course Mika Might.
>king

Just get your own back....when you are coming up to a corner and a computer
car is slightly in front, brake later than usual so that as you turn you side
swipe the AI car which puts him off the track and acts as a brake for you as
well (as long as you don't hit them too hard).

_________________________________________________________________
David Zuidema \ WANTED
Monash University Physics dept. / --
Melbourne Australia \ new sig
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.physics.monash.edu.au/personal/davidz/david.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------

by **Scott Wills** » Fri, 17 Feb 1995 18:22:23

>> and if you are not past a certain point (i.e. if your front wheels
only
>> reach the computer cars'***pit) the car will act as if you are not
there
>> and push you off.

>So I was right in my conclusion that the computer car's driver is
obviously
>one and the same person: Eddie Irvine !!! Did he work at MicroProse ?
>--
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Mike Philippens, Gorinchem - The Netherlands, Europe |

>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

Can't be Irvine -- if it were, he would knock your car out from behind
at a chicane, then later claim that you stopped too soon and there was
nowhere to go! :-)

Scott
--
Ayrton Senna da Silva 1960-1994

...that yellow helmet dancing into view-
going faster and faster...

by **David Paul Gym** » Fri, 17 Feb 1995 18:46:35

4) They make almost no effort to outbrake you, ever.

-- Gizmo
--
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Launchpad is an experimental internet BBS. The views of its users do not
necessarily represent those of UNC-Chapel Hill, OIT, or the SysOps.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

by **Isaac Wo** » Sat, 18 Feb 1995 05:59:46

> > and if you are not past a certain point (i.e. if your front wheels only
> > reach the computer cars'***pit) the car will act as if you are not there
> > and push you off.

Yes, because right there is the "blind spot" of the rear view mirrors.
I didn't know whether MicroProse simulated that effect, but certainly
the computer drivers won't shoulder-check :)

**************************************************
* Isaac Wong *
* Department of Systems and Computer Engineering *
* Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada *

* *
* \/\/ong *
**************************************************

by **Robert Pearson (B** » Sun, 19 Feb 1995 00:00:00

>Can't be Irvine -- if it were, he would knock your car out from behind
>at a chicane, then later claim that you stopped too soon and there was
>nowhere to go! :-)

>Scott
>--
> Ayrton Senna da Silva 1960-1994

> ...that yellow helmet dancing into view-
> going faster and faster...

Right Scott! I figure it is Pierlugi Martini in his first incarnation as a
Formula One pilot. Do you remember James Hunt and Murray Walker calling him
"the mobile chicane" in 1985?
He has _got_ to be the one who Microprose modelled their AI on. : )

Or maybe it was Keke Rosberg... remember when he was fined for "brake
testing" Patrese?

Bob P

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
+ Bob Pearson + "There are only two kinds of hockey fans +

+ + and those who wish they were."-My Dad +
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+

by **Scott Wills** » Sun, 19 Feb 1995 02:17:10

Hey, I didn't know that about Roseberg! Maybe that's where Patrese got
the idea, 'cause in '88 he was fined for pulling the same stunt on
Julian Bailey in the Tyrrell. Say, come to think of it, Patrese himself
had a reputation for being very difficult to get around at about that
time...

Scott
--
Ayrton Senna da Silva 1960-1994

...that yellow helmet dancing into view-
going faster and faster...

by **S.K.Ko** » Sat, 18 Feb 1995 18:21:36

: >Has anyone had a problem with computer cars shoving you off the track. I
: >have had them push me off the track when I had the driving line and even
: >to the extent of having a shoving match to get the line back. This even
: >happens with backmarkers. I sometimes have to resort to punting them off
: >the track to get by. If anyone knows, Please write.
: >

: Yeah, I find them to be very pushy, especially in corners. I feel like I am
: cheating when I punt them off the track--and since I do not play with the
: invincability on I sometimes suffer from their aggressivity.
: But you know, backmarkers like Pierlugi (The Mobile-Chicane) Martini can be
: difficult to pass in the real F1. So maybe F1GP is just too realistic when
: it comes to passing backmarkers. :)

: Bob P

Personally I don't think that it's so much a case of aggressive cars, but
more a case of bad AI with the cars. When you are trying to overtake the
computer cars they *won't* move out of the way, and they will follow a
set course, even if it means that they have to nudge your car in the
process. On numerous laps I have been cuagh out in this way, with the car
being overtaken trying to cut accross my car, even when I'm clearly in
front. Often this means that we lock wheels and one, or both of us spin off.

Hopefully this will be corrected in F1GP 2...

Steve

--
Stephen - UKC - Hey you, Don't watch that watch this.. - Madness
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or just an oncoming train?
Disclaimer - Well of course I said it! It's always *my* fault.
Well why not, eh?

by **R.J.E. Mundell CMP** » Thu, 23 Feb 1995 19:15:31

There is actually a bug in F1GP in the computer cars AI routines which
means that if you are along side a computer car, running parallel to the
racing line, the computer car will ignore you and attempt to return to
the racing line. The computer cars will only notice your car if you're
directly infront or behind of it.

_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ Richard J. E. Mundell
_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ http://www.sys.uea.ac.uk/~u9427082