rec.autos.simulators

Not to confuse apples and oranges, but what kind of guarantee did Microsoft
make it's customers for the last decade that products like Word would meet
expectations? How many *years* did it take before that product was the
flagship word processor they always claimed it to be?

If I went through my software shelf (not even counting games) and looked at
the stuff I've bough that it took months of trying to coax into doing what I
wanted, before giving up ....I'd probably question my sanity. Did they offer
a lifetime return policy? No. Did patches solve my problems? No. I'm still
waiting on a patch from Adobe for GoLive 4.0 for Windows so it don't crash
when I don't have a PostScript printer. Am I hollering at Adobe? No. I'm not
sure where I was going with this point now ... I guess I'm making a point
for being reasonable.

A "no questions asked" return policy for entertainment software just makes
no sense. For the simple reason that there are so many titles in every genre
that any one is more or less replacable in some fashion. With business
software, you have a tangible reliance on a package so such a policy makes
sense because you are making a commitment to use such a product and if it
can't grow with your needs, you have to shelve it and retool. Where is that
relationship with games? Other than emotional attachment, there is none.

Every new PC comes with a free Internet account of some sort. Seeing that,
we put systems in place to be able to offer frequent and free online
updates. Somehow you seem to see this as we're cheating people. Seems like
an impasse to me.

    -MSM

--
__________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                       "Be regular and orderly in your life,
Director of Design                    that you may be *** and original
Motorsport Simulations                in your work."

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Your point sounds more like a call for acquiescence, i.e. the
world is full of underperforming software and overblown
marketing claims so get used to it.  Sorry, losing battle or
not I think I'll stick to the high road.

Yet Sierra has exactly that - "the Sierra No-Risk Guarantee".
Granted it is for only 30 days, but for a 'finished' product
that is more than enough time to evaluate a game.  The
problem is that you have admitted that your product is not
finished, it is a 'first attempt', a 'process', a work in progress.

Since you are currently attempting to charge me for that
work in progress I have every right to raise questions
pertaining to recourse should the progress go off in a
direction I am not interested in or never materialize.

For the last time, I just want to know what if anything I
can do to get my money back should I be unable to
return it to the store I bought it from when and if
patches come out that either do nothing or not enough
to address the fundamental problems I have with game?

If the answer is nothing, just say so, no qualifications are
required.

 - George

  As a Warbirds guy, I know what you're trying to do here and I commend
you guys for it.

  The bottom line of this war here is that the game box does NOT say "Well,
we know that what's inside here is sorta crappy and not what
we want the game to be.  But stick with us and eventually it'll get better."

  The game box promises a buncha stuff that it does NOT deliver.  And until
patches/upgrades are actually seen, your promises here are basically
so much smoke.

  Most people who buy boxed games are NOT the online WB/AW community
who are gonna stick with a game forever.  They're gonna play it, see that it
doesn't live up to the promisies on the box, and either throw it on the
shelf or return it.

  -dobe-

-Chris-

--
-Chris-

---Two wheels are better
---Proud owner of a 1998 ZX-9R

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

: A "no questions asked" return policy for entertainment software just makes
: no sense. For the simple reason that there are so many titles in every genre

: Every new PC comes with a free Internet account of some sort. Seeing that,
: we put systems in place to be able to offer frequent and free online
: updates. Somehow you seem to see this as we're cheating people. Seems like
: an impasse to me.

Yep, and I don't see how you can "win" this one.  I think you can spend 4
hours each day trying to answer such questions, and you won't satisfy some
posters.  They have already made up their minds.  Better you should
oncentrate on filtering out the constructive criticism from the endless
debates about whether Motorsims is "cheating" us and get on with moving
the product forward.

I think most people will be satisfied with this game, especially the
online aspect of it.  The diehard sim nuts here might not like it, but if
they are posting on r.a.s. then they can download the demo.  If they can't
wait, well too bad.  I'm sure I'll get an earful for that attitude, but it
is nonetheless my opinion.

I am constantly amazed at how worked up people get over a $40 game.  Star
Wars Episode I was a huge disappointment after the hype, but I didn't
demand my ten bucks back.  I'm practically dragging bug-fixes out of an
arrogant company for a 60,000 video motion analysis system at the moment.
Your plan for upgrades (if you follow through on it) sounds great for a
$40 product.

People need some perspective here.  AMA is not the worst game to come
along - we'll reserve that title for Snowmobile Racer (which amazingly has
a sequel).

Stephen

--

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

% > Somehow you seem to see this as we're cheating people.

% For the last time, I just want to know what if anything I
% can do to get my money back should I be unable to
% return it to the store I bought it from when and if
% patches come out that either do nothing or not enough
% to address the fundamental problems I have with game?

% If the answer is nothing, just say so, no qualifications are
% required.

Dead Horse!  Dead Horse!!  Let's beat it! <G>

You know the answer, so I assume this is a rhetorical question?  You
don't like it when you buy, take it back.  Check for updates, download
the downloadable version....  if it's made the grade in your book, go
out and buy the boxed version and apply the patches.  If not, say "screw
it" and walk away unhappy.  

Now to change the subject... How many angels can dance on the head of a
pin? ;-)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

--
Mike
www.aloha.net/~flying
sorry about the fake reply
address < Tired of Spam>
real folks can e-mail me at
flying<at>aloha<dot>net

Indeed.

All I'll say to wrap this thing up is what I said before - if you feel
uncertain, try the demo version. Or stick with the free online versions
until such time as you're comfortable buying the box. Whatever teething
problems we have are being fixed. Whatever problems are in AMA Superbike are
being fixed. Motorsims is committed for the long haul - we wouldn't have
folks like Carroll Smith and Dave Sadowski in our corner if we weren't.

So it shall be written, so it shall be done.

    -MSM

--
__________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                       "Be regular and orderly in your life,
Director of Design                    that you may be *** and original
Motorsport Simulations                in your work."

http://www.racesimcentral.net/