rec.autos.simulators

The design of the online game will allow the racers to:

Qualify
Race
Determine winner
Your race stats are sent to your personal web page real time for all to see.

So there is a *whole* lot comming from the online side of the game!

AMA Superbike is loaded with features from real life motorcycle physics.
When Motorsims began creating the physics we decided to begin with a *full*
14 degree of freedom physics model. We realized immediately the difficulty
in driving this model. You would have to keep the bike balanced or it would
fall over. If you leaned into a turn the bike would fall. The two gyros
(created by two spinning wheels) are an incredible effect to control. We
made a design decision from the beginning to make the game more drivable.
The game needed to be competitive to race straight out of the box. In the
offline version the A.I. is at an easy level. To turn it up go the
Riders/Realism menu in the U.I.

Motorsims wanted to create a game for all to play (race). We are staring a
large online racing community. This community will be players of all skill
levels. We will have the more difficult models available throughout the end
of the year. What we can tell right off is that *most* of the players
testing enjoy the easier models. We wanted the players to race the track and
not just be worried about crashing. It is definitely more exciting to race
than to crash. I know not all will agree here but our sales will show the
truth. GPL is probably the finest sim I have ever played. But its sales are
short of what Motorsims is expecting.

I can tell you that we will have a *World Appeal*. David Sadowski, Jamie
Hacking, and Scott Russell have all played the game. Ben Bostrom, Eric
Bostrum, and Tommy and Nicky Haden have all seen the game. They (and others
around the track) say we have hit it on the head.

At this point we decided to add limits for game play. Now it is assumed that
your rider can keep the bike balanced and knows how far he/she can lean it
over. This also applies to several other areas like wheelies (that you do
not hit the accelerator and get tossed on your back). Do not misunderstand
us here, too fast into a corner and you become a geologist (If you have low
sides turned on). By default the low sides are turned off. To turn them on
go to the Riders/Realism menu in the U.I. This will make the game 100%
harder turned on.

The whole idea here is to allow a player to advance from beginner to
intermediate to expert to pro. You begin the game with the easiest model.

What you will be able to realize immediately is there is an awesome physics
model built into the game.

Some areas to look for: (note that for the best experience you will need to
ride in the***pit mode)

The rider moves up and down. This is plus or minus 15% aerodynamic drag.
This allows you to sit up before a corner and "catch air" (slowing you down)
and tuck deep in the***pit for the straight. It can be manually configured
in the "Advanced Options" screen of the U.I.

The rear tire on a Superbike can spin at any time. There is about 160 hp to
about 355 lbs. of total bike weight. This is about a 2 to 1 hp to weight
ratio. You will need to master the art of feeding horsepower to the rear
wheels.

Note that in the upper left of the screen there is a tire meter (blue at
first). As you ride your bike these meters turn colors. Green is the best
and red is slick putty. Also notice we took the tire meter one (or three)
step forward. There are three sides to a tire. We have modeled the
left/center/right sides of the tire. This will tell you exactly what
temperature each part of the tire is at. For instance, if you have a
racetrack like The Colonel's Brainerd International Raceway, you will notice
the race track turns mostly to the right. This means that after a couple of
laps the right side of the tire gets nicely up to temperature. However the
left side is cool. This means that your right turns get great traction and
you will have to be extra careful on lefts. Extra fun!

As you go into a turn your eyes (not head) look slightly into the turn. This
allows for better passing and overall awareness in the turns. This is also
adjustable in the Riders/Realism part of the UI.

As you ride around for the first time press the number 6 key and drive
around. You can see how the bike sets into the turns. Awesome!

**IMPORTANT** You will quickly see that too fast into a corner and the bike
does not steer well and you are off into the grass looking at all of those
beautiful rocks. Some still on you face. A Superbike has two wheels. They
ride on a patch of *** that is about as wide as your palm of your hand.
The maximum g-force is only about 1 to 1.2 g's in the turn. The proper way
to go around the racetrack is to slow for the corner, make the turn and get
the bike back up and put the power down. This will take a few tries but you
will quickly get the hang of it.

The next step is go into the options menu and the to the advanced options.
We have created a completely adjustable control options menu. The sliders
represent your control's axis. You can use the three different curves or
make up your own. (Warning here, you have on some axis like the steering,
you will need to make sure one goes left and one goes right or it will not
work)

The incredible part of the controller setup is that it can support up to 8
devices for a total of 32 axis and 96 buttons! This will allow the racer to
automate some of the axis while manually controlling others. You will need
to experiment to find the perfect setup. Just another way to get up close
and personal on the racetrack.

Usually most people want to get their rider "pitch" on a separate axis. This
will allow you to control your rider independently. Now you can get your
rider up early before a turn and back down around the center of the apex.
This will make a huge difference in lap times.

Also the rider left/right lean on the same axis as your left/right steering
will allow you to get more out of the turn. (Just like a real rider leans
off the bike in a turn). Once you turn it on you will see the effect. You
will need to adjust it to your riding style. (Also be aware this effects the
physics model)

Another tip is to put the rear brake on a separate axis (or even map it to a
button or key). Most Superbike riders only use the front brake. You will
immediately see the better control while braking.

Note: save your setups before you leave and then name them.

In the garage you will find the complete ability to change your bike
settings as well as your gears. You will need to experiment some to find
that perfect setup. Once again save your setups and name them, as you will
need to load them again. You will have a different setup for each track.
Note that in AMA Superbike you can change every gear in your transmission.
However in the 600SS classes you can only change the front and rear
sprockets.

AMA Superbike also has real corner workers. Fully animated. These corner
workers will follow actual AMA rules. Let's say you cut a corner. The corner
worker will actually point at you and flag you for a restart! Keeps it real
and will be a large part of our online series racing. It's better than going
out and hiring locals to call the race.

We have a series starting up. All I can ask is to give it a try. Who knows
some you may like it.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

It has been known that after 10-15 laps the game becomes ***ing. Have fun
and enjoy.

Charles Joyner
Executive Producer

--

1) A better approach would have been to more accurately capture
the physics involved.

2) Drivability can be accomplished independent of scaling back the
underlying physics model.

There is more to the success of a game than initial sales.  As a company
whose core comes from the flight sim side of gaming I would think that
you would have grasped that by now.

The bike wheelies under normal acceleration far too easy when the rider
has his weight shifted all the way forward.  They can also be provoked to
last indefinitely in any gear you like at nearly any constant speed you
like.  When a wheelie finally does end the rear tire raises up off the
ground as the front touches down.  It is also possible to steer with the
front wheel off the ground with the rider perfectly centered on the bike.
Lastly is is possible to wheelie with the rear tire spinning wildly (yet
in a perfectly straight line).

There is no bar shake under heavy front braking nor does there appear
to be any consequence of locking the front brake up regardless of what
type of steering input one provides.  Indeed one can push a locked front
tire with a spinning (yet once again not sliding) rear while turning in a
rather
tight radius circle at low speed (with lowsides on).

There is no tail wag when the rear is locked once again regardless of
steering input.  With the bike at a dead stop, engage the rear brake
completely and then pin the throttle - watch the bike slowly creep
forward despite the rear wheel not moving (my personal favorite
example of Motorsims physics gone badly wrong).  Is the rear brake
stronger than the motor? <Warning - DO NOT try this at home>

The rear doesn't squirm under hard acceleration including when done
so in dirt, grass, or sand.  High sides are completely nonexistant.
The rear will step out and remain hung in a spinning position for
as long as one likes.

Engine braking appears nonexistant.  Premature downshifting doesn't
cause wheel hop either when using the clutch or when not.  The clutch
itself isn't very progressive, yet when you drop the clutch into first
from a standing start with the bike redlined the rear doesn't start
spinning nor does the bike jump.  When you do the same with the
bike in sixth the bike doesn't stall, lurch, or otherwise indicate any
disatisfaction with your stupidity.  Pulling the clutch in while cornering
(shutting the bike down) doesn't gain you any result either.  There
is no neutral, there is no danger of getting a false neutral.

The bikes tend to bounce off of curbs, the bikes bounce off of each
other.  The bikes suffer no mechanical breakdown nor any damage
during crashes.  Flag marshalls hang their flags over apexes provoking
odd crashes.

There is absolutely no resemblence to real motorcycle racing with
respect to the sheer 'violence' of the sport.  It is hard if not impossible
to get a bike onto the ragged edge of control - everything has been
smoothed out to such a degree as to take away the challenge and
fun.

The list of physics related errors goes on and on.  Add to the above
the lack of feautres that would make this a truly full featured game:

There is no weather, there is no debris, there is no oil, radiator
fluid, or any other substance that reduces the available amount
of grip.  The is no tire smoke.

There are no pits stops (no Daytona pretty much assures this though),
there are no red flags or race restarts.  There are no sighting laps,
there is no warm-up lap, there is no danger of jumping the start.
Race weekends aren't properly simulated, the Big Kahuna national
isn't properly simulated either.  There are informational errors in
the game (the info for Supersport machines is wrong, a couple
of the factoids are wrong).  The game allows you to choose the
tire compound for Supersport bikes despite the class running
on D.O.T tires (there are no hard/soft/medium Dunlop D207 GP
variants).

The Harley has come up missing.

There is no replay facility.  There is no telemetry.

read more »

bunch o' stuff snipped

You summed up my feelings very well.I'm extremely disappointed with AMA SB,I
gave it a fair chance these past couple of months,but it seems GPL scared the
hell out of some developers from doing a true simulation,instead we get dumbed
down arcade racers. :((

Hey, it's a new company and a new game, give it a chance. Also, you can
try the game for free and decide if you want to buy it or not. Also, the
people of Motorsims have stated time and time again that upgrades would
be available often. How  many times have you seen people from the game
companies actually reading what you post here?

Philster

Somehow, I think you probably said the same thing about GPL initially.

The only bad thing I've ever had to say about GPL was the
Banshee texture corruption feature which I fixed on my own
at a considerable expense of time (later making the fix available
to all 3dfx GPLers).  Many months later Papyrus contacted
me about the the patch and I spent another day of my time
helping them sort it out in the GPL 1.1 patch.

Currently I'm working on my own version of GPal, but with
Jack Rambo apparently alive and kicking that side project may
give way to more racing.  Interesting work though.

So, I guess my point is my GPL 'rapture' knows no bounds.

As for AMA Superbike, I have been taking part in their second
closed beta again at expense of my own personal time and
everything I wrote in my previous post I wrote to them on
their beta feedback boards months before the game actually
shipped.  I've been there from RC1 to the current RC8, providing
feedback on what they have as well as being critical when it
comes to what they don't have.  Those that are willing to
accept what they have on the promise of more to come
should be damn sure they like what they have.

 - George

--
Mike
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~flying/
P.S.   Sorry about the fake reply address ;-)
Just tired of SPAM
Real folks can reach me at.......
flying<at>aloha<dot>net

Thats a shame.  I can think of many things wrong in GPL.  Shall we start
with collision detection both in single player and online modes?  Yeah,
pretty bad.  How about the way GPL handles crashes?  Kinda like AMA at this
point, not very well at all.  Lets see.  Oh yeah, lets talk about the fact
that the graphics engine is prone to literally drawing two cars over the top
of each other.  An example is when racing side by side, the engine sometimes
overlaps a right/left front wheel and paints it on top of the chassis of my
car.

Whats the point?  Its not to critisize GPL at all.  I love GPL, drive it as
much as I can.  Yet, rather, if you look, not even that hard, you can find
bad points about everything.

Well, thats at least positive news as far as GPal and GPL goes. Got his
email address?

I don't think this was called for at all. You're assuming that just because
we haven't updated the game withing 48 hours of hitting the shelves that we
never will.

As for some of your other comments. I've said several times in several
places that Harley wouldn't grant us a license for the VR. We built the
bike, modelled it's performance, sampled the engine sound, everything. But
in the end they said "no." Same kind of deal on Daytona. They simply
wouldn't offer licensing terms that made financial sense to us. Not even for
Phoenix (which ISC also owns).

Unlike other game companies who have no ties to the racing community, we
*have to* do things by the book because we are partners with the AMA. So I'm
sorry if you're disappointed that those items aren't in the game but these
were issues that were simply beyond our control.

    -MSM

--
__________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                       "Be regular and orderly in your life,
Director of Design                    that you may be *** and original
Motorsport Simulations                in your work."

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

It is good eh? Too bad the AI wasn't a bit more challenging, that's
why I eventually stopped playing it.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================