rec.autos.simulators

--

Neil Yeatman          
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Cheers!
John

Papyrus/Sierra.

Well, I hope not that long! I'll be rejoicing as soon as there's a
decent 3dfx racer, which should be N2 3dfx around Xmas.

Joe

Joe

Nanker Pheldge enlightened the world with this pearl of wisdom...

Not true. I spoke with Dave Kaemmer a couple of years ago when he was
pledging support for the Rendition at the Computer Game Developer's
Conference. At the time, it was the clear leader in both support and
features. 3Dfx was barely getting up to speed.

They just guessed wrong.

--
--------------------------------

editor - computer games strategy plus | www.cdmag.com

"I need to hear some sounds that recognize the pain in me,
 I let the melody shine/let it cleanse my mind/I feel free,
 But the airwaves are clean and there's nobody singing to me, now."
                                    -The Verve "Bitter Sweet Symphony"

Actually we already have F1 Racing Simulation, which is already a more
than decent 3dFX racer, excellent in fact. Like any other product it
has it's niggles, but on the whole it's very good. I'd recommend it.

Cheers!
John

You're not talking about Psygnosis F1 are you? I hope not - the thing
doesn't even have analog device support. Perhaps you're talking about
UBI F1 - that won't be out for months here.

Joe

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:47:00 -0500, Nanker Pheldge

Probably, although at that time Rendition also looked good. No-one
knew about 3D carda at that time, and the abilities of either card
looked stunning compared to the SVGA jerk-o-vision we were used to. If
I were Papy and I saw a card priced to sell and with very good
abilities I'd probably have gone the same route. A card costing $299
PLUS the price of a 2D board to pair with it wouldn't have looked a
promising prospect I should say.

20-20 hindsight is marvellous, it's predicting the future and how it
will affect you that's important. Look at how the DRAM price crash
surprised a lot of business strategies. How many industry experts saw
that coming?

Cheers!
John

You are stating as fact something which you don't know to be correct,
that Papyrus made a bad decision over 3D support. So what do we really
know? We know that a bad decision was made, and we know that it has
affected the implementation of 3dFX support in some products we are
interested in. We don't know WHO made such a decision, we don't know
WHY, we don't know WHEN, we don't know WHAT was the market condition
at that time, we don't know HOW that has truly affected their overall
market, or if indeed such a decision served to generate more profits
through increased sales of Rendition cards than it would have through
sales of the software. We even don't know that we wouldn't have made
exactly the same decision, given the factors which were known at that
time. IMO it's therefore simply not on to pillory a company for
something we don't understand. In short, we don't know.

BTW I would equally defend MS/TRI if they were attacked for adopting
D3D rather than Glide for CPR. I'm not defending the company
themselves or their decision, since I too would far prefer Glide or
some other form of effective use of 3dFX. Realistically though,what
would you expect them to use, given that D3D is their technology? If
they were to avoid D3D how could they hope to persuade other software
companies of it's viability?

All I am defending their right to make that decision, and for the
pacts to be portrayed correctly.

(That was longer than intended! Just so we're clear what we're arguing
about!) :)

Yes Ubi-F1. It's out here, it has 3dFX, it's a bona-fide sim and it's
_lovely_. Go rattle Ubi's cage and have them release it in the US.
After all, you guys had SODA before us, we don't even have CPR and
we're _never_ going to get the BGN pack. Don't expect any sympathy for
not having Ubi F1 yet :-)

BTW Psy-F1 does have analogue device support.

Cheers!
John

% A 3Dfx was not 2 or 3 times the price of a Rendition at the time.
% Inter***Reactor and Sierra 'Screamer both were going for $199.  My
% 3Dfx card cost me $249 at the time.

% Sierra made the call on this one I'd bet, not Papy.  Papy wasn't selling
% a Rendition card, but Sierra was trying to.

This was a "programming" decision more than a marketing ploy for
Sierra's interest in the 3d video accelerator.  When they started
looking at making 3d accelerated products they were sold on the quality
and speed that could be gotten from the Verite chipset and instructions.
They picked the wrong fork in the road at this junction.  I am sure had
they been able to gaze into the crystal ball, they would have chosen
another path.   Also another reason they chose to go with the Verite
based cards was that 3dfx was behind other 3d accelerator cards in
getting to the market.  At the time they chose, Verite was the best
choice (think about it and go back in time and look at the other 3d
cards that were available or were just becoming available, if you do, I
think you should be able to understand Papyrus' decision).  Of course
many of you won't or can't see it this way.

As to the matter of Sierra supporting the Rendition over other 3d cards.
. .  Well if Papyrus had made their decision to go with Rendition
because of this, then they sorely made the wrong decision for the wrong
reason.  Had they even considered Sierra's support for this hardware and
looked at Sierra's track record (Ad-Lib over SoundBlaster), well they
would have surely picked another 3d chipset to support.  [for the
reading-challenged, the last paragraph is pure sarcasm.  However, it
does contain a ton of truth. <G>]

Also for the record, I am not "kissing" Papyrus's ass.  I don't receive
anything from them except excellent racing sims (just like the rest of
you).  I have never received any special favors from Papyrus.  My
interest in posting what I do is to set the record straight.  And on
occasions (for those who haven't been in r.a.s. for along time), setting
the record straight has meant getting on Papyrus' case when the facts
warrant it.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

   As far as setting the record straight on this...  Michael, what was
the sequence of events of these events?

* Papyrus began working with Rendition and ported ICR2 (sometime in
the first half of '96?, public discussion or it in June '96)

* Sierra bought out Papyrus (this was around Feb - March '96)

   Which happened first?  I'm under the impression that Papyrus'
initial commitment to Rendition predated their merger with Sierra,
thus was unrelated to Sierra marketing their own Rendition card
(probably more the other way around, ie: Papyrus turned Sierra on to
the possibilities of the Rendition chipset).  

   Sierra's hardware commitment might have slowed Papyrus' move to the
3Dfx camp, although you might also chalk that up as loyalty to their
existing Rendition customers...

Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

It's coming (in the new year) I've heard, and it does sound like a
nice sim. Looking forward to it.

I meant it doesn't have *working* analog device support.

Joe

I'm afraid I can only respond to what you said, not what you thought
you were saying.

Cheers!
John

Joe