rec.autos.simulators

I've been online since 1990, and pretty soon after starting to race
F1GP I joined Oliver Robert's "offline league" that featured
soon-to-become community celebreties like Grant Reeve and myself, just
to name a few ;-)

We'd run a full-length gp offline, then submit our race times to
Oliver who'd compile them into a "virtual" race, handing out points,
keeping the standings and so on. Good times!

Even with all the advances in AI and cpu power, online racing is still
where it's at for me, and while I've gone through phases where I did
not touch a wheel for a week or two, there's always something new to
try out or a new season to organize and I keep coming back to this
great pastime.

Speaking of leagues, The Screamers are still looking to fill some
slots on the grid for season18 starting on Oct. 25th. Follow up here
if you're interested in joining one of the oldest race clubs on the
net and we'll sort something out!

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Uwe

Many thanks for the invite, but I'm not in a situation where I can do
any simming at the moment.  I'll be back in my normal environment
(i.e. through with my job assignment) come February and will be trying
to set up iRacing at that point.

-Dirt-

Many thanks for the invite, but I'm not in a situation where I can do
any simming at the moment.  I'll be back in my normal environment
(i.e. through with my job assignment) come February and will be trying
to set up iRacing at that point.

-Dirt-

Jens

56 years old, here, but for me, sim-racing is just another game. Realistic
physics in a game is fine, but it's not really much of a learning tool,
even for those (unlike me) who actually race. My real world experience is
maybe a couple of autocross sessions, and some indoor go-kart stuff, not
real racing, so I don't need a learning tool.

The only learning tool software I own is a radio control aircraft similator
called RealFlight. Since there is no force feedback in the real world,
the only difference is visual, but this doesn't matter much. The main
issue is dealing with orientation (flying a rc heli upsidedown and sideways
mixes up the control inputs you use), and how the model responds to
control inputs, which the rc simulators do quite well.

Back to racing sims, unlike radio control, a bit part of racing is the
feedback you get from forces while driving at the limits, and no amount
of visual, audio, or steering force feedback is going to replace it. Some
real world racers use these games to get an idea of track layouts, but point
out that even the simplest things, like braking points, are significantly
different between game and real world. For me there are racing games, some
have realistic physics, and some like Need For Speed, have pursuits and cool
graphics.

Regarding online play, I'm not as active as I was, because I play a larger
variety of games (I also play games like TombRaider), and my *** time is
limited. In my opinion, online racing attendance peaked somewhere in 2005,
and slow diminished since then with a few blips as new games got released.

        46, here. Just the other day I watched Rfactor on Laguna Seca.
Compared to iRacing, the difference is enormous. The difference is in small
things, but those small things makes track completely different. Well, like
they said in one episode of Inside Simracing, little differences, not big
deal. Only, the one track is real, and the other is not, this is what makes
iRacing useful. Rfactor version isn't good for anything, and it only
confuses real life driver. iRacing version is spot on, and it really can
help real life driver (I am not one of them). Showing him track layout
exactly. And this is what laser scanning is about, the exact computer
representation of the track.
        In your sport training is simple, in car racing training is
expensive, very expensive, and knowing the exact layout, can help (I would
say, pretty much). Braking points aren't big deal. One car has one braking
point, the other has another. You change a setup, you change braking point a
little. You adjust your braking point to real situation, to the REAL track.
And you already know real track pretty well, if you raced it on iRacing a
hundreds of times. The behavior of the car? Well, every car behaves
differently, and even the same car behaves differently, regarding on tire
pressure. Even on the same tires, the car behaves differently during time,
and in changing weather conditions. Comes a rain, everything changes. But,
the track layout doesn't change. Knowing that there is a crest on the track
in some corner, and driving accordingly (using that crest), helps you a lot
when you finally come to the track in real life, and other drivers only just
spot that, and they need some time to "figure" it out. You are already way
ahead.
        At least, this is how I see the whole thing. -- Mario Petrinovic

        Oh yes, the other thing is that iRacing provides a controlled
environment with sanctioning body, and thus can give infrastructure to
develop sim racing into a real sport. It is the only of this kind. Iracing
team is awaible 24/7/365, constantly maintaing and building this
infrastructure. This is just fantastic, compared to anything else, way
ahead, revolutionary. Whatever Kaemmer did in the past, it was always
revolutionary for sim racing. Hat down to him, he is way ahead of everybody.
I simply cannot undarstand anybody who bashes iRacing. -- Mario Petrinovic

Mid Ohio, Rouen, LeMans (Virtua_LM)
Nordschleife
Zandvoort
Spa
Bugatti
and on, and on, and on

Oh wait, you can't drive most of them with iRacing. Damn...

l8er
ronny

l8er
ronny

        Yes, you are right. I just watched Grid review at Inside Simracing.
It sure can get you a lot of fun (it looks like).
        At first I didn't understand what the iRacing stuff is talking about
when they talked how they will not steal anybody's share of market. Now I do
understand. At first I just thought that iRacing will be in competition with
other sims. Now I know that iRacing is a completely different thing. And
this is what they announced on their public release. They said, who wants to
play games doesn't need to come to iRacing. As simple as it is. iRacing is a
sport, real sport, and it is developed for sportsmen, not for playing
around. Other sims will have better looks, more fun, better graphics, more
tracks, more cars. iRacing will always try to give the best physics,
accurate laser scanning tracks, and controlled environment. The market is
splitting. There will not be anymore fun games trying to act like the real
thing. There will be iRacing trying to BE real thing, and other stuff
offering plenty of fun.
        It is one interesting thing, iRacing is actually recruiting its
membership from "fun sims" buyers. So, the more fun "fun sims" are offering,
and the more people "fun sims" are attracting, the bigger pool of potential
iRacing customers. -- Mario Petrinovic

<snipped marketing bullshit>

l8er
ronny

        Well, one can argue whether life is a game. But, the FACT is that
iRacing HAS sanctioning body which works 24/7, the FACT is that iRacing HAS
laser scanned tracks. Now, these are the main characteristics of iRacing,
sanctioning body and laser scanned tracks. Now, what would be the purpose of
those things? What do you think? To act like BigHeads, or what? The purpose
of those things is exactly to develop a sport, and to make iRacing a tool
for sportsmen. I don't see any other purpose for these (and these things are
EXPENSIVE, no way they would be used without a purpose), and also I don't
see any other "game" that has those things, and that has put so much money
into those things. Why? Well, because no other company has these goals.
 -- Mario Petrinovic

-Dirt-

I wouldn't call any computer activity a sport. Some claim that flying radio control
models is a sport. I fly radio control gliders, mostly at a slope site where there's
an updraft, and most of the time, I'm just twiddling a pair of small joysticks.
The only sport aspect in this is if the updraft goes away, and I have to go down
and back up the slope to retieve the model.

Most popular games cost that much to make or more. Electronic Arts spends about
 $10 million per year or so for the yearly released versions of Need For Speed.
These games sell at around 5 million (ProStreet) to 9 million (Carbon, Most Wanted,
Underdround 2), so it's business model that works. (Compare this to the
6000 or so iRacing "renters").

Cheers, uwe

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