rec.autos.simulators

Vibrators

Michael Barlo

Vibrators

by Michael Barlo » Wed, 01 May 2002 06:26:00

    WOOHOO!  Ooops, wrong kind ;-)

(for a home made SimRacing***pit)
    What I'm after is something that will take an electrical current and
convert that to a mechanical vibration.  I.E. An Engine sound from a sound
card.  I originally was thinking of placing a big woofer behind the seat of
the***pit but I don't think I can get a good enough vibration out of it to
shake the seat and***pit.  So, has anyone heard of such a device that wont
produce sound but will vibrate like hell.  I'll also be hooking up a big
woofer for the sound effect though.

--
Michael A. Barlow
FILSCA (www.filsca.com)

Txl

Vibrators

by Txl » Wed, 01 May 2002 07:05:29

a rotating excentrical wheel is what you want, they use them in force
feedback sticks and even in cellular phones...

--
The first ever pinball ezboard !!
http://www.racesimcentral.net/



Ian

Vibrators

by Ian » Wed, 01 May 2002 07:19:59

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
A bit pricey and no idea how good or bad they are though.

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>


Per Thuli

Vibrators

by Per Thuli » Wed, 01 May 2002 07:15:11



If you haven't seen it, have a look here: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

They claim to deliver a good shake with only a 30-watt amp powerng their
contraption... :)

--
"Walk like a Syrian"

Per Thulin

Visit Jane The Hamster (and Pelhamina & Grenville) at

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~u54108168/

(Spamblock in operation - remove "hamsters" in email address to reply by
mail.)

Blak

Vibrators

by Blak » Wed, 01 May 2002 08:09:15

A "Base Tube" will do it also and it works off the sound so it matches what is going on...

|     WOOHOO!  Ooops, wrong kind ;-)
|
| (for a home made SimRacing***pit)
|     What I'm after is something that will take an electrical current and
| convert that to a mechanical vibration.  I.E. An Engine sound from a sound
| card.  I originally was thinking of placing a big woofer behind the seat of
| the***pit but I don't think I can get a good enough vibration out of it to
| shake the seat and***pit.  So, has anyone heard of such a device that wont
| produce sound but will vibrate like hell.  I'll also be hooking up a big
| woofer for the sound effect though.
|
| --
| Michael A. Barlow
| FILSCA (www.filsca.com)
|
|
|

Michael Barlo

Vibrators

by Michael Barlo » Wed, 01 May 2002 08:38:50

    OK, Did a search on "Base Tube" and found lots on vacuum tubes.  Also
found this interesting page, Most of it is in French but some of it was
easily understandable, such as this page on that site about Automotive
physics (roll centers and the like)..
http://www.racesimcentral.net/#FR

    Just what is a "Base Tube"?

--
Michael A. Barlow
FILSCA (www.filsca.com)

> A "Base Tube" will do it also and it works off the sound so it matches
what is going on...




ss

Vibrators

by ss » Wed, 01 May 2002 09:48:24

Just a guess...but a search for 'bass (not base) tube' might be more
fruitful....

Chri

Vibrators

by Chri » Wed, 01 May 2002 10:18:10

When they invented "rumblevision," the effect used on the original
theatrical release of Earthquake in which the audience literally felt the
earth move, the only technology they used was a very powerful speaker under
the chair.  In the 1970s, sub-woofers hadn't really been invented.  I should
think that a sub would do the trick, but it will probably depend entirely
where you put it.

Chris


Blak

Vibrators

by Blak » Wed, 01 May 2002 13:56:44

yes sorry for my spelling BASE tube... its a type of sound speeker that rumbles and vibrates...

| > Just what is a "Base Tube"?
|
| Just a guess...but a search for 'bass (not base) tube' might be more
| fruitful....
|
|
|
|

Tom Pabs

Vibrators

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 01 May 2002 15:23:12

Michael...

We have been working on this technology for almost two years now.  I have
tried just about everything....and I can tell you there is a lot more to
this than meets the eye.  Here's some of what we know:

1.  Subwoofers don't work.  The subwoofer channel is too low for the bulk of
the engine sound frequencies that create vibration.  In addition, the
subwoofer is insulated...from the surface and is made to NOT vibrate...since
the speaker cone is large and moves a lot of air.  Engine vibration of the
type that matches RPM revs is mid to high frequency.

2.  All current commercially available "vibration" game devices are
"toys"...they don't work...or they don't work well enough for sim racing, at
least.  Don't waste your money on them.

3.  What does work.....at least this is the best that we have come up with
and it picks up about 90% of the realistic vibration from the engines....is
an amplifier and actuator system.  They are expensive.  Here is a picture of
one of our simulators from last year with this system working.  Note the two
"actuators" bolted to the back of the Kirkey racing seat.

www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/tpracerig.jpg

The cost of the system you see in this picture is about $1,000...for two
actuators and the 300 watt amp to run them.  These are very similar to the
actuators used at Lucas Arts....for the vibrating movie seats they pioneered
a few years back.  Add in $300 for the seat...which is required (aluminum
racing seats work...nothing else we tried did).

The two actuators are driven by a separate 300 watt subwoofer amplifier.
Even with this system, it did not work as well as we liked.  Without going
through all the things we tried that didn't work......here's what did (at
least it gave us the 90% vibration I mention above):  We run the "center
rear" channel of a Dolby 6.1 surround system to the input of the actuator
amplifier....set the frequency response "cross-over" on the amp at
180Hz...run the amp at full volume.....and because of this, you have to air
cool the amp with a fan, or it will overheat and the protection circuit will
cut it off after about 5 minutes of running.  I have had several real-world
drivers in the rig pictured.....they all agree its darn close....reproducing
the engine vibration felt through the seat in a real racecar.

I think this is the info you are looking for....but I doubt its much help,
unless you want to spend a "grand" on vibration equipment.  We are
continuing our search for something that works as well.....at half the
price.  It won't be done for less than that....probably ever.

Regards,

Tom


Gave

Vibrators

by Gave » Wed, 01 May 2002 16:01:52

  I use an Aura Bass Shaker.  They're a transducer that was introduced  a
few years back for kids to bolt under their car seats to amplify ( vibrate)
the floorboards, seat, whatever.
  They're rated at 25w and though that seems like very little power, they'll
shake the eyeballs out of your head.  They do make a minimal amount of noise
but not enough to be any kind of annoyance. They  originally sold for over a
couple hundred bucks each BUT I found a few at Parts-express.com for about
40 dollars a pair. Aura doesn't make em anymore but they're out there.
Gavel


Gave

Vibrators

by Gave » Wed, 01 May 2002 17:10:14

  Hey, those 'actuators'on the seat look exactly like my Aura Bass Shakers.
Who is RBH?
  Any professional power amp could  run wide open without overheating unless
the actuator ( I beleive they're actually called trransducers)  is rated far
below the nominal wattage and you're overdriving  them. In which case they
will get hot as a pistol and may cause the protection circuits in the amp to
trigger, as you report or the seat to get awful warm, as mine does when I
pump 100 watts through mine.
   Got a url for RBH?
Gavel
Mar

Vibrators

by Mar » Wed, 01 May 2002 22:55:31

I have to disagree with you Tom,

  The transducers you are using have a very limited and low frequency
response. Most subwoofers have a much better frequency responce than a
transducer.  Why use a crossover, with or without a crossover the
transducers aren't going to respond to anything higher than 180
anyways.   All power amps should be run wide open, then adjusted by
how much pre amp signal sent to it.  If it overheats you are doing
something wrong.  I use two 8 inch 300 watt JBL speakers and no
crossover being pushed by a single 250 watt Audio Centron poweramp.
One behind the seat and one underneath my feet.  These speakers have a
response of 20 to 4k, about 4 times the range of a transducer.  You
feel vibrations from all the sounds not just 180 and below.  A
transducer is just the driver of a speaker without the cone and
basket, thats all.  Save your money.


> I use an Aura Bass Shaker.  They're a transducer that was introduced  a
> few years back for kids to bolt under their car seats to amplify ( vibrate)
> the floorboards, seat, whatever.
>   They're rated at 25w and though that seems like very little power, they'll
> shake the eyeballs out of your head.  They do make a minimal amount of noise
> but not enough to be any kind of annoyance. They  originally sold for over a
> couple hundred bucks each BUT I found a few at Parts-express.com for about
> 40 dollars a pair. Aura doesn't make em anymore but they're out there.
> Gavel



> >     WOOHOO!  Ooops, wrong kind ;-)

> > (for a home made SimRacing***pit)
> >     What I'm after is something that will take an electrical current and
> > convert that to a mechanical vibration.  I.E. An Engine sound from a sound
> > card.  I originally was thinking of placing a big woofer behind the seat
>  of
> > the***pit but I don't think I can get a good enough vibration out of it
>  to
> > shake the seat and***pit.  So, has anyone heard of such a device that
>  wont
> > produce sound but will vibrate like hell.  I'll also be hooking up a big
> > woofer for the sound effect though.

> > --
> > Michael A. Barlow
> > FILSCA (www.filsca.com)

Gave

Vibrators

by Gave » Thu, 02 May 2002 00:27:33

 Mark,
    I'm Gavel, not Tom. <VBG>
But I agree with you about the crossover and the power amp. You should be
able to run the power amp wide open. But I think he may be using a consumer
power amp ( receiver).
    My Aura Bass Shakers are rated at 25w nominal and if I push 100w through
em they get hot and the circuitry in the powered mixer  I've been using
shuts down for a bit. So I've got a  car power amp and a 12v converter I've
yet to hook up..( to make it portable for lans).  The original poster was
looking for a a minimal sound solution and the transducers pretty much will
satisfy that. Headphones can carry the rest.
   I have hooked up my whole P.A. to my computer once.  2 15 inch subs in
some old Peavey folded horn cabs, PAS mains and two 1500 watt Mackie power
amps. Wife complained that stuff was falling off the wall in the next room.
<g> I once locked the dog in the room with a loop of the Andy Griffith song
playing over and over because the little bastage peed on my shoes.
Gavel

> I have to disagree with you Tom,

>   The transducers you are using have a very limited and low frequency
> response. Most subwoofers have a much better frequency responce than a
> transducer.  Why use a crossover, with or without a crossover the
> transducers aren't going to respond to anything higher than 180
> anyways.   All power amps should be run wide open, then adjusted by
> how much pre amp signal sent to it.  If it overheats you are doing
> something wrong.  I use two 8 inch 300 watt JBL speakers and no
> crossover being pushed by a single 250 watt Audio Centron poweramp.
> One behind the seat and one underneath my feet.  These speakers have a
> response of 20 to 4k, about 4 times the range of a transducer.  You
> feel vibrations from all the sounds not just 180 and below.  A
> transducer is just the driver of a speaker without the cone and
> basket, thats all.  Save your money.




- Show quoted text -

> > I use an Aura Bass Shaker.  They're a transducer that was introduced  a
> > few years back for kids to bolt under their car seats to amplify
 vibrate)
> > the floorboards, seat, whatever.
> >   They're rated at 25w and though that seems like very little power,
they'll
> > shake the eyeballs out of your head.  They do make a minimal amount of
noise
> > but not enough to be any kind of annoyance. They  originally sold for
over a
> > couple hundred bucks each BUT I found a few at Parts-express.com for
about
> > 40 dollars a pair. Aura doesn't make em anymore but they're out there.
> > Gavel



> > >     WOOHOO!  Ooops, wrong kind ;-)

> > > (for a home made SimRacing***pit)
> > >     What I'm after is something that will take an electrical current
and
> > > convert that to a mechanical vibration.  I.E. An Engine sound from a
sound
> > > card.  I originally was thinking of placing a big woofer behind the
seat
> >  of
> > > the***pit but I don't think I can get a good enough vibration out of
it
> >  to
> > > shake the seat and***pit.  So, has anyone heard of such a device
that
> >  wont
> > > produce sound but will vibrate like hell.  I'll also be hooking up a
big
> > > woofer for the sound effect though.

> > > --
> > > Michael A. Barlow
> > > FILSCA (www.filsca.com)

Gave

Vibrators

by Gave » Thu, 02 May 2002 00:52:54

 Hey Mike,
   Try this link:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

  Sounds pretty cool. Might be what you're looking for. I may snag the 100w
model.
Gavel



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