http://www.racesimcentral.net/ if you have any questions regarding the game.
Ilari Lehtinen
Bugbear Entertainment
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Ilari Lehtinen
Bugbear Entertainment
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Interesting, though I generally dislike web-based message boards -
Usenet is much more convenient - so I'll probably carry on posting re
RT here. I do have one concern, though: there is a message from one of
the admins saying an editor is unlikely - I'll be very, *very*
disappointed if third-party addons prove to be impossible. IN fact, I
may not even buy the game without that capability.
--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57 [*hooray!*]; Monsters +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
>> JoWood opened an official forum for Rally Trophy today. Head over
>> to http://forum.jowood.com if you have any questions regarding the
>> game.
> Interesting, though I generally dislike web-based message boards -
> Usenet is much more convenient - so I'll probably carry on posting
> re RT here.
In fact, I certainly will, as the board has got stuck and won't accept
my post. Here's what I was going to say:
<begin quote>
I'm very concerned at Teut's message: Ilari Lehtinen was on
rec.autos.simulators the other day and gave the distinct impression
that editing tools would be available if the community wanted it
enough. We do.
I think it would be utterly idiotic to make RT a "closed system" -
programs that are capable of accepting user-written addons generally
have a much longer lifespan. GPL is the prime example - imagine life
without Replay Analyser, Carsound, GPLRank, VROC...
The "complexity" argument is just silly: GPL track editing was very
difficult indeed until recently, yet we still got Brands, Solitude,
Imola...
There's never been a rally game with a decent editor; I had high hopes
that RT would be it. Instead, it seems to be indanger of being "just
another game". If you want cash, from me at least, you must *not* keep
everything proprietary. WSC is showing the way: don't get left behind.
--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57 [*hooray!*]; Monsters +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
How many people actually use those things? A closed system won't hurt sales
a bit. If they want to make a follow up, then a closed system is certainly
understandable.
All editors are not created equal.
WSC hasn't showed anything yet (I'm sure it will be excellent), and I
seriously doubt that they will squash the competition and be a best seller
due to being open. You seem to think that because a relative handful of
people stay "into" a sim for a long time (like GPL or MTM2 with editing,
etc.) that another sim fails if it doesn't follow that path. For the 1,000th
time, GPL failed. It has a loyal following among a small group of people.
Lots of "things" in life have a loyal following, that doesn't make them an
example of how it "should be done".
BTW, if a GPL2 and GPL3 were made (due to half a million in sales, how many
people out of the 40,000 who bought GPL would still be playing it (not that
there's really that many left)?
I'll gladly pay $40 for Rally Trophy with or without editors.
David G Fisher
+Cinquo
> You won't pay $40 for a sim if you can't edit it? Come on. $40 is nothing.
> Take a date to a movie, have a snack, and you end up paying that. Two hours
> later and it's over for good.
;) I'm sorry, the opportunity just begged for this!
I agree with you on all counts, though. GPL is NOT an open system. In
fact, it's probably one of the most closed. The same goes for GP2/GP3,
and look how many addons/improvements were done for those by the
community. CMR 2.0 is in the same league, yet new cars are starting to
come out.
If Rally Trophy sells well (I sure hope it does), you can bet there will
be people who will crack the code and expand upon it. And even if that
doesn't happen, if Rally Trophy will deliver at least half of what we've
been promised, 40$ will be a steal.
-Gregor
> > You won't pay $40 for a sim if you can't edit it? Come on. $40 is
nothing.
> > Take a date to a movie, have a snack, and you end up paying that. Two
hours
> > later and it's over for good.
> I think you should seriously reconsider your dating strategy if your
> dates are over for good after two hours...
> ;) I'm sorry, the opportunity just begged for this!
Seriously though, $40.00 for a sim is an extreme bargain when you add up all
the hours of enjoyment you get from it. Even if you buy an occasional dud,
it's still a very cheap hobby when it comes to the software. The hardware is
where the expense comes (I just had to order a Ferrari FF wheel today). :-(
David G Fisher
| (I just had to order a Ferrari FF wheel today). :-(
| David G Fisher
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001
Hope this clears things :)
-Ilari
> > JoWood opened an official forum for Rally Trophy today. Head over
> > to http://forum.jowood.com if you have any questions regarding the
> > game.
> Interesting, though I generally dislike web-based message boards -
> Usenet is much more convenient - so I'll probably carry on posting re
> RT here. I do have one concern, though: there is a message from one of
> the admins saying an editor is unlikely - I'll be very, *very*
> disappointed if third-party addons prove to be impossible. IN fact, I
> may not even buy the game without that capability.
> --
> David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57 [*hooray!*]; Monsters +271.79)
> The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
> "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
> really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
Thank you. Even though I'm disappointed with the probable lack of an
editor, I am very pleased that you are prepared to come on here and
answer questions - that's much better than most developers.
Looks like it's a GPL situation again, folks - if we wnat user-done
tracks, we'll just have to figure out the formats ourselves. Someone
set up the RTEA... :-)
--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57 [*hooray!*]; Monsters +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
<snip>
<snip>
Indeed - what I meant was that GPL is *now* reasonably open compared to
other games, thanks to the huge efforts by various people such as the
GPLEA. I'm also probably using a different definition of "open" and
"closed" to the norm - what I mean by an "open" system is one where an
ordinary player can alter cars, tracks etc without having to get out a
hex editor. I *don't* necessarily mean one which is open source.
And yes, I almost certainly will buy it if it's very good. I think I
was being a bit hasty because of my disappointment - it's ridiculous
that no recent sim has come with any sort of editor, even one with
rough edges like the GP2 one.
--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57 [*hooray!*]; Monsters +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
>> Usenet is much more convenient - so I'll probably carry on posting
>> re RT here. I do have one concern, though: there is a message from
>> one of the admins saying an editor is unlikely - I'll be very,
>> *very* disappointed if third-party addons prove to be impossible.
>> IN fact, I may not even buy the game without that capability.
> May I remind you of the fact that GPL didn't ship with any editing
> facilities at all? Look what happened. You really needn't make such
> a fuss about it.
--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57 [*hooray!*]; Monsters +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
Besides, anything can be learned, given time, effort and an infinite amount
of monkeys on typewriters.
+Cinquo (Et exspecto resurrectionem Clermont-Ferrandus)
>> Fullblown editor is pretty much beyond our resources and timelimits
...
>Looks like it's a GPL situation again, folks - if we wnat user-done
>tracks, we'll just have to figure out the formats ourselves. Someone
>set up the RTEA... :-)
Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
>>> May I remind you of the fact that GPL didn't ship with any editing
>>> facilities at all? Look what happened. You really needn't make such
>>> a fuss about it.
>> Quite right - if people can "do a GPL", then that's fine. I just worry
>> about the prospect of it being made *deliberately* difficult to do so.
>The incredible level of third-party GPL tracks is due mainly to one thing:
>the complexity of track editing.
Basic track editing isn't that hard. I've done one myself in Max, a
tiny tiny one, and am trying to make it easy for people to create them
(for my own sim), but the real challenge is in the details; great
looks, nice track camera's, splitting the track up into parts, object
properties and such. But for a quick start, not a lot is required
here.
Waiting for random series of bytes to create a wonderful new track
would be about as fast. ;-)
Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/