rec.autos.simulators

GPL Hardware Requirements

Eric T. Busc

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Eric T. Busc » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Comparing Unreal is apples to oranges, as the 3Dfx version is Glide and
the Rendition version is an alpha OpenGL port on a beta ICD...

Eric


Christer Andersso

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Christer Andersso » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00

I prefer apples actually, cause oranges are way to messy ;o).

/Christer
--
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o) )

John Walla

GPL Hardware Requirements

by John Walla » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00



Comparing apples to oranges is very valid if someone is in a
supermarket wondering what fruit to buy. If I was in the market for a
video card and Unreal was my tipple, all that would matter would be
what was on the screen - it's awful.

Cheers!
John

Eric T. Busc

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Eric T. Busc » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00

That may be the case for Unreal, but from the title of this thread I
don't think it makes much difference.  My initial point was running the
same software (and I'm not even counting GPL since it's RRedline and
Glide) Rendition has superior image quality to 3Dfx.  Voodoo zealots
aside, you'll not find many who will argue that point.

- Eric


John Walla

GPL Hardware Requirements

by John Walla » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00



The title of the thread was never in doubt - the Thriller3D is best
for GPL and I bought one for that very reason. The point that was made
was that if GPL is not the only reason for buying a 3D card then a
3dFX may be the better choice, depending upon what you want to run.

3dFX is more widely supported, has a greater user base and for those
reasons generally offers better speed and image quality than a
Rendition card. No matter how keen you are on a card, you have to
accept the shortcomings - if I bought a Rendition card to play GPL
thanks to advice here I'd be pretty hacked off if my other favourite
game Unreal looked like a bag of spanners on it.

Cheers!
John

Eric T. Busc

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Eric T. Busc » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00

While the other points may be true, saying that 3Dfx cards offer better
image quality is just plain false.

- Eric


Eric T. Busc

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Eric T. Busc » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00

The second part is of course true (it's splitting hairs, but it's true).
However to say 'generally' in your first statement is still incorrect
and misleading.  The majority of apps using Direct3D, OpenGL, or even
those with both native Glide and RRedline ports do not look better on
3Dfx cards (these titles far outnumber Glide only ports).  If you had
quantified it by saying something to the effect of 'and for those
reasons Glide ports offer 3Dfx users better speed and image quality than
a Rendition users running in software mode or using an alpha OpenGL port
on a beta ICD' you'd have gotten no argument from me...

- Eric


Marc J. Nelso

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Marc J. Nelso » Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Not nearly as funny either.  =)


> ...and they're not nearly as much fun as a banana.

--
Marc J. Nelson
The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com

* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Bruce Kennewel

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00

True, Christer, and they're not nearly as much fun as a banana.


> I prefer apples actually, cause oranges are way to messy ;o).

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
John Walla

GPL Hardware Requirements

by John Walla » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00



Not if you read what I wrote. I wrote "and _for_those_reasons_ (user
base and wider support) generally offers better speed and image
quality than a Rendition card".

If 3dFX is supported and Rendition is not, I'd guess that the image
displayed on a 3dFX would be better than that on the Rendition, Unreal
being a case in point. If the Rendition is not supported it doesn't
matter how good it could have been had the support been there.

Cheers!
John

Alison Hi

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Alison Hi » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00

On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:44:55 +0200, Christer Andersson


>She claims you need the L2 cache and you dont, so now I'm more confused than
>ever :o).

Sorry.  To clarify: for a Pentium Classic, my own experience and
Papyrus' official advice both indicate that you need L2 cache.

The situation is different with Celerons.  Apparently these are fast
enough that despite the lack of L2 cache they can run GPL quite well
under most conditions, especially when overclocked, as John Wallace
reports.  

Some of our testing suggests that a Celeron which lacks L2 cache may not
work as well when hosting an online race as a machine with L2 cache, but
John Wallace's testing with his Celeron seems to contradict this.  I
think we will need more experience in this area to be able to say for
sure.

I have no experience with the new Celerons that have L2 cache, so I
can't say for sure how they will work with GPL.  It would seem quite
reasonable to expect that they will work better than the Celerons which
lack L2 cache.   Perhaps someone with a Celeron with L2 cache can
enlighten us on how the GPL demo runs on it.

Alison


Adam

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Adam » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Just curious, how many software titles today offer native RRedline support
and how many offer native G3Dfx support?  Is the number even close?

>The second part is of course true (it's splitting hairs, but it's true).
>However to say 'generally' in your first statement is still incorrect
>and misleading.  The majority of apps using Direct3D, OpenGL, or even
>those with both native Glide and RRedline ports do not look better on
>3Dfx cards (these titles far outnumber Glide only ports).  If you had
>quantified it by saying something to the effect of 'and for those
>reasons Glide ports offer 3Dfx users better speed and image quality than
>a Rendition users running in software mode or using an alpha OpenGL port
>on a beta ICD' you'd have gotten no argument from me...

>- Eric



>>Not if you read what I wrote. I wrote "and _for_those_reasons_ (user
>>base and wider support) generally offers better speed and image
>>quality than a Rendition card".

>>If 3dFX is supported and Rendition is not, I'd guess that the image
>>displayed on a 3dFX would be better than that on the Rendition, Unreal
>>being a case in point. If the Rendition is not supported it doesn't
>>matter how good it could have been had the support been there.

Eric Gile

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Eric Gile » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00


>On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:44:55 +0200, Christer Andersson

>I have no experience with the new Celerons that have L2 cache, so I
>can't say for sure how they will work with GPL.  It would seem quite
>reasonable to expect that they will work better than the Celerons which
>lack L2 cache.   Perhaps someone with a Celeron with L2 cache can
>enlighten us on how the GPL demo runs on it.

>Alison

OK, no problem!

I received my Celeron 300A on Friday to replace my PII233 that I have been
using overclocked to 300MHz/100MHz FSB on an Abit BX6 with a Diamond Monster
3D. I popped it in, set the settings in the BIOS, and it was up and running
at 450MHz with no other tweaks. All I can say it that there is a difference.
Everything runs a bit smoother, and the car seems much easier to control
now. I never thought I had any slowdowns with the PII300, but it does make a
difference. I can imagine the difference will be greater when the full
version is released and a full field of AI cars is present. I may now have
to purchase the Thriller 3D to round everything out!

If anyone is thinking about upgrading their system for a relatively
inexpensive amount, I recommend looking into a BX chipset board like the
Abit BX6 or BH6 and the new Celeron 300A. This is an excellent way to get
the performance of a PII450 for under $200 (price of the chip only). And
most all of the reports I have heard show that people have been very
successful in getting it to overclock (some have even got it to 504MHz!)

Eric Giles

Byron Forbe

GPL Hardware Requirements

by Byron Forbe » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00

A reference to your *** idiosyncrasies Bruce? :)

> True, Christer, and they're not nearly as much fun as a banana.


> > I prefer apples actually, cause oranges are way to messy ;o).

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce.
> ----------

John Walla

GPL Hardware Requirements

by John Walla » Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:00:00



First of all my apologies - my last message came across as kinda
dismissive and stronger than I intended. It was 3am, working all day
and I just dashed off a response and headed for bed. Sorry for that.

I believe that no matter how I worded it the facts would remain the
same - on average across the software you can buy today or in the near
future, you will get better framerates or visuals with a 3dFX card
than with any other 3D card. This being due to a large user base and
widespread card specific support. Added to that is the fact that with
a 3dFX card there are only one or two titles in which you will be
unable to get 3D support (e.g. ICR2), whereas with, for example, a
Thriller 3D there are markedly more, including some big ones like
Unreal and QuakeWorld.

The Rendition stuff is very good, that is beyond doubt. However while
it is undoubtedly best for GPL I think that needs to be considered
alongside what else the potential buyer might enjoy - that's the only
point I'm stressing.

Cheers!
John


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