rec.autos.simulators

Name a racing game that has sold more copies  _____________

Name a racing game that has attracted and continues to attract
more interest, posts, etc. (www.granturismo.com)  __________

Fact of the matter is that Ratbag has created a fantastic simulation of the
WoO Sprint Cars series on the PS2.  I am enjoying the hell out of it.
Better than anything released recently on a PC.

"Buster"

Copies Sold does not equal Simulation.

If that is true, I will go buy Brittney Spears new video game and do some
simulating of my on.

Sorry dude.  Turn off the assists and you'll find that the performance of
the vehicles is eerily accurate.  I own a WRX and zipping around the tracks
in GT is a remarkably similar experience.  GT is an excellent driving
simulator, but not a great racing sim.  The AI bites and the damage model is
pretty crummy.

Ahhh, the joy of running hotlaps at Laguna SECA in Viper without ABS.  Gotta
love it.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
*** cancer.  If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation.  Thank you.

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[was CART SIM!!]

Well to be fair, PCs don't come with wheels as standard, just keyboards; so
that's really the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it :o)

cheers
John

The GT series is more of a simulation than many so called "sims" on the PC.
Just because it's popular with the bleeding thumbs gang, doesn't make it
any less worthy.  Most objections to "arcade" handling can be placed at the
feet of the extra grippy tyres.  No problem, you can buy "professional"
tyres with more realistic grip model and the sim becomes harder to drive,
and requires a great deal of technical ability.
There's no need to be a snob.  I love GPL and NR2002, but I don't see GT2
as being greatly different, especially with a wheel and pedals.

cheers
John

I really enjoyed DTR-SC on the PC, and it was certainly a game that
required skill in driving to be at the front of the pack.  I don't see the
PS2 sequel being any "worse" and like you say, almost all the console
hating snobs here seem to think two things are true:

1) All PCs come bundled with TSW wheels and pedals when you buy them
2) Wheels and pedals are not available for consoles.

neither is the case, much to the dismay of the "elite", I'm sure.

The next time someone says "you can't race with your thumbs", you'll laugh
at them trying to race using their cursor keys.

As for longevity, the only reason I don't play GT2 frequently, is because I
don't have custody of the TV.  The only reason I don't play GT, is because
they were nice enough to make a superior sequel.  While GT will never have
as many tracks as, eg, GPL, it does have about 600 more cars to play with.

cheers
John

Yeah, but the default controller configuration on all PCs is the keyboard,
so at least the consoles have analogue buttons. And you can hold a Dual
Shock 2 in your hands instead of putting it on your desk. And it has built
in force feedback. That is a really stupid argument. Remember, you probably
race with a steering wheel and pedal set on your PC, which you went out and
bought as an add-on. The steering wheel I have I can take out of my PC and
plug straight into my PS2. Or I could have gone out and bought a steering
wheel directly for my PS2, just like you did for your PC. The steering wheel
transforms most games - Gran Turismo gets a lot more realistic, and you can
actually set faster laptimes and get better awards on the License tests
using a wheel. Exactly the same thing happens on the PC. The argument could
be put the other way, I could say "Ha, I have a steering wheel for my PS2,
and look at all those PC-sim-wannabe's racing using a keyboard!". You would
realise that is a stupid argument and you would shoot me down in flames for
saying it, so expect the same when the roles are reversed.

The simple fact is that a console is capable of running racing sims, and it
has the control method to match (if you go out and buy it). One of the most
annoying things is WSC never going to be released (or is it..?), as it was
in dual development for the PC and PS2. But you will calmly look over points
like that because 'consoles can't do sims'.

Somebody said the new consoles don't have a killer app yet, because they
don't have a Mario or a Sonic. Well, I hate those little characters and most
of that entire genre. Where is the PC's killer app? I can't recall a
platformer with a cute face that made people buy PC's. The PC originally
sold in its millions and stole the Amiga's audience because of Doom. The PS2
sold in its millions because of Gran Turismo 3 (and now Metal Gear Solid 2).
The xbox sold in its hundreds (<g>) because of Halo. They do have games
which make you want the console, they just don't have an annoying cartoon
face staring at you.

"How many console 'simmers' are still playing with sims that are 4-5 years
old (like, ahem, GPL). Oh wait, the PS2 and Xbox aren't even 4-5 years old,
LOL!" - SimRacer

Yes, but the fact that the best sim on the PC (GPL in my opinion) is that
old shows just how little the PC platform has moved on in that space of time
in terms of racing sims (4-5 years is a huge amount of time in the computer
industry). The PS2 can play PSone games, which are 4-5 years old, and I
still play some of them, but no sims were made for the PSone (with 33Mhz -
was it? - I am sure you can see why).

Racing simulations are a niche (and as niches go, it's quite a small one).
How many people do you know with PCs? How many are sim racers? How many have
a steering wheel? Exactly. Publishers on the PC are loathe to make a racing
sim simply because they are alienating most of the market before they even
write "Hello, world!". It's the same on the consoles. Developers and
publishers would rather write a FPS or arcade racer simply because it shifts
more copies and makes them richer. That is true across all platforms (it's
business sense), not just consoles.

--
Nick

"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software

Yes, you can play online games through a 56K connection on the PS2 (except
Windows isn't there slowing everything down), and you can use fast
connections on the PC, but my point is, both PCs and consoles are equally
well connected. What about null-modem? You can link up two PS2s in the same
way. What about LANs? You can link PS2s together with a hub to get the same
effect.

PS2 broadband network has been up and running in Japan for a while(coming to
US and UK in the fall), while the xbox has just gone broadband in the
states.

Please find out about something a little before you start criticising it.

--
Nick

"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software

Well said. Who cares about the platform, it's the game or sim in question
that matters.

--
Nick

"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software

Yes, but sims are a subset of games. Games which are realistic fall into the
sim category, whether they are flight sims, racing sims or anything else.

I love fighting the console side of these arguments :-). Me vs the world!
I'll take you all on... I have a PC and a PS2, and I think they complement
each other perfectly. I don't generalise into playing one genre of games on
one platform though, I just chose the games I like on an individual basis.
My arguments are quite console-friendly, but that is just to balance out all
of you PC-simmers who refuse to recognise the merits of other systems. Kinda
like linux users...

--
Nick

"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software

Have you tried WoOSC:2002 yet?  Awesome game.  I still play DTR on the PC
only because of the online capabilities, but WoO:SC is even better than the
PC version of sprint cars.  Except for the online play of course.  Ratbag
rules!

Oh, and regarding online play, my son plays Tony Hawk 3 (PS2 version) over
the internet already.  Neversoft supports a variety of USB ethernet
adapters, which hook directly into my broadband network.  The online
capabilities of PS2 games will get even better once Sony releases their
broadmand adapter this fall.  If only GT3 came with this support... oh well.

And anyone that criticizes GT3's driving physics has obviously never played
the game with a Logitech FF wheel, without ABS/TCS, and using simulation
tires.  Just try to run a fast lap at Monaco in that 900 HP Skyline...