rec.autos.simulators

by **Chris Schlette** » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00

IMS doesn't know how to market or manage it seems. They didn't have to
until CART left Indy as it was a big draw.

CART legends would be anyone that could qualify for legendary status that
raced within the CART guidelines...so that would be Al Unser, Mario
Andretti, Emmo, Roger Mears, etc.

<chuckles> Actually the "fan-base" argument is NOT weak. Perhaps the
fan-base within the US has dwindled for CART, but the fan base across the
world is growing. <shrugs> No matter what, CART's fan base is still larger
than IRL's by a good chunk of change.

Similar in design does not mean that the IRL chassis would meet CART
guidelines (not taking into account dimensions).

Half-truths? Or opinions. I'll consider them opinions, since your post had
no more validity in full-truth than mine did. And public opinon would not
swing against them if they had more credibility but considering the
numberous screw-ups they've had I'm surprised it hasn't swung even more
against them.

track dog.

<rolls his eyes> Competive with whom? Yeah, it will go down in history as
once again one of the biggest flops in racing history. Not to mention it
will have a nice little black spot buy it as the an Indy500 that almost
didn't get any media coverage due to IMS "playing" at censorship.

Btw, let me know how much a ticket is running on the street, maybe I'll
wander over on Memorial weekend and buy a dozen or so. :?

by **Chris Schlette** » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00

Why? Then you would need a Road Drivers championship. Besides, its sorta
silly....CART is built in such a way you need to be able to master all forms
of the different track types in order to win the CART Championship. This is
how it should be.

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00

> Seems that Andretti, Unser and Vasser are the best we have...:)

And all along I thought it was Billy Boat. Damn. ;)

Personally I cant wait to see the highlights of the Indy 500 where the
announcers say: "This capacity crowd is on its feet..." and the camera
scans across the bleechers and everyone is just sitting there. ROFLMAO

I remember when CNNSI showed that last year and the sportscaster were
busting on them for saying that. Then again.. what do you expect from the
IRL and all 12 of its fans ;) <G>

Scott
PA-Scott

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

>The main point is though, that a classic race like the Indy 500 should
>feature the best drivers in the world, period. No one has any problem
>with everybody having a shot at qualifying for the race - you could have
>60 cars aiming for the 33 slots and everyone would be happy. The 500's
>profile was never higher than when European F1 drivers would come over
>and pit their skills against America's finest.

I wish I was old enough to REMEMBER the late 60's races... :)

__

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by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

>The fact that some no-name like Billy Boat got the pole last year
>sums up how screwed it really is. Then one of my washed up F1
>heros (eddie Cheever) wins the race?!***that crap...

Just curious - How did you feel when Teo Fabi won the pole? He was almost a
no-name at the time...

Eldred

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by **Greg Cisk** » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

>Just curious - How did you feel when Teo Fabi won the pole? He was almost
a
>no-name at the time...

He was in fact ex F1. Not quite a no name. Maybe a no name in
the US but he was a back marker in F1 for quite some time.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Michae** » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

> >The main point is though, that a classic race like the Indy 500 should
> >feature the best drivers in the world, period. No one has any problem
> >with everybody having a shot at qualifying for the race - you could have
> >60 cars aiming for the 33 slots and everyone would be happy. The 500's
> >profile was never higher than when European F1 drivers would come over
> >and pit their skills against America's finest.

> I wish I was old enough to REMEMBER the late 60's races... :)

Me too - I wish they'd captured more on film so we could watch them now!

- Michael

by **'John' Joao Sil** » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

Who cares what country a driver is born in, what should matter is their
driving talent and bravery not whether they're "Uhhmericun" or "Furriners"
(as that so elegant IRL buffoon A.J.Foyt calls them)

And anyways that kind of jingoistic stupidity that some of the IRL
supporters spout hasn't kept "Furriners" like Lyendik (sp?), Brack and
Moreno from beating some of those "Local Boys" in the IRL so far.

Personally I would love to see CART show up at Indy and have that "imported"
Juan Pablo Montoya run laps around those "local boys".

Racing drivers earn my respect based on merit not on nationality or even
what racing series they compete in.

Right now the Indy500 is an embarrassment to a once great tradition.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva

>Anyways the idea that Indy is less than it was doesnt really hold up (in my
>book). I like that the local heroes like Kinser, Boat, Stewart, and the likes
>are getting a shot at Indy. Thats the way it used to be and i feel its the way
>it should be. Now if CART would use American driver instead of imports (Juan
>who??) it would interrest me more. This is the exact reason i hold little
>interrest in F1 racing...no American drivers (Villenuve is the best we
>got...and he got screwed). I guess its a matter of opinion. I think it gives
>more drivers hope of someday making Indy without having a name like Andretti,
>Unser, or being associated with Penske or one of the other hotshoes that own
>cars (well Menard is still there but...). Like i said....matter of opinion i
>guess.

>Chris

by **Jim Moor** » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

> CART legends would be anyone that could qualify for legendary status that
> raced within the CART guidelines...so that would be Al Unser, Mario
> Andretti, Emmo, Roger Mears, etc.

Again, you illustrate your ignorance. <music on>...one of these things is not
like the other....<music off>. Regardless, you illustrate my point. Without
Indy, these names would mean somewhat less, particularly Unser and <that would
be Rick> Mears . If you are implying that Indy ran ever under CART rules during
this era, you are simply wrong.

Neither has a great fan base and both have poor TV ratings. Ask Andrew Craig if
he's proud of CART's TV ratings.

Nor would a CART chassis meet IRL guidelines. ;-)

Yes, the IRL has made big mistakes that have contributed to their image. See my
original point.

I'm not sure how a race with 350,000 in attendance and a 5+ TV rating is a
flop. Yep, IMS was wrong to attempt to censor.

Naaah...why don't you spend the weekend with that CART legend, Roger Mears.

Does Michael Jordan have a brother? ;-)

Jim

by **jer..** » Fri, 04 Jun 1999 04:00:00

There will never be a reconcilliation between Cart and IRL as long as
Tony George has control of the IMS. The man is an idiot. This whole
brooha started because the boy wonder felt he wasn't being treated with
enough respect by CART owners. Uh huh. Unlike race tracks, respect is
earned, not inherited. Without his band of advisors-who convinced him to
seek NASCAR and F1 sanctioned events-George would have already run the
Speedway straight to the egde of financial disaster. He may still get
the job done if he continues to***off the networks, Time Warner and
Sports Illustrated. I'll bey Tony Hulman is spinning in his grave. Shame
on you, George, you half witted, arrogant, incompetent shithead!!!!
P.S. Wasn't Indy great? There were almsot as many wrecks in the pits as
there were on the track. Oh well, at leat they didn't kill any
spectators this year. And hey, that suspension impact retaining system
really works. Great! Maybe they ought to add traing wheels and throttle
governors too.

by **John Bod** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

>There will never be a reconcilliation between Cart and IRL as long as
>Tony George has control of the IMS. The man is an idiot. This whole
>brooha started because the boy wonder felt he wasn't being treated with
>enough respect by CART owners. Uh huh. Unlike race tracks, respect is
>earned, not inherited. Without his band of advisors-who convinced him to
>seek NASCAR and F1 sanctioned events-George would have already run the
>Speedway straight to the egde of financial disaster. He may still get
>the job done if he continues to***off the networks, Time Warner and
>Sports Illustrated. I'll bey Tony Hulman is spinning in his grave. Shame
>on you, George, you half witted, arrogant, incompetent shithead!!!!
>P.S. Wasn't Indy great? There were almsot as many wrecks in the pits as
>there were on the track. Oh well, at leat they didn't kill any
>spectators this year. And hey, that suspension impact retaining system
>really works. Great! Maybe they ought to add traing wheels and throttle
>governors too.

You apparently meant to post this in the rec.autos.sport.indy
newsgroup, because your post has nothing to do with race sims, and
therefore has no place in the rec.autos.simulations newsgroup. If you
did indeed mean to post this message here, then I'm sure everybody
appreciates your efforts to keep us informed -- and hopefully they'll
take the time to properly shower you with their gratitude.

-- John Bodin
Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

P.S. Yes, Indy was great -- there were only 8 caution flags for a
total of 42 laps (out of 200 total); that means that 21% of the race
was run under yellow. Saturday's Motorola 300 CART race, on the other
hand, featured 9 yellows for a total of 72 laps (out of 236 total),
which means that 30.5% of the CART race was run under yellow. Was one
race better than the other? That's all a matter of opinion and
preference -- both were great races, and I personally felt that this
year's 500 was the most exciting in a long time, with a real
nail-biter finish (EVERYBODY in the stands was on their feet for the
last 5 laps). As for your incredibly insensitive remark about fan
fatalities, need I remind you of the '98 CART season?

by **G Kuche** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

funny...but I bet alot of people are of the same opinion as
him........because he speaks the truth....and as you stated in your
post...you have a bias.....what's wrong?..doesnt IRL have a newsgroup or
is it because no one would subscribe???

> >There will never be a reconcilliation between Cart and IRL as long as
> >Tony George has control of the IMS. The man is an idiot. This whole
> >brooha started because the boy wonder felt he wasn't being treated with
> >enough respect by CART owners. Uh huh. Unlike race tracks, respect is
> >earned, not inherited. Without his band of advisors-who convinced him to
> >seek NASCAR and F1 sanctioned events-George would have already run the
> >Speedway straight to the egde of financial disaster. He may still get
> >the job done if he continues to***off the networks, Time Warner and
> >Sports Illustrated. I'll bey Tony Hulman is spinning in his grave. Shame
> >on you, George, you half witted, arrogant, incompetent shithead!!!!
> >P.S. Wasn't Indy great? There were almsot as many wrecks in the pits as
> >there were on the track. Oh well, at leat they didn't kill any
> >spectators this year. And hey, that suspension impact retaining system
> >really works. Great! Maybe they ought to add traing wheels and throttle
> >governors too.

> You apparently meant to post this in the rec.autos.sport.indy
> newsgroup, because your post has nothing to do with race sims, and
> therefore has no place in the rec.autos.simulations newsgroup. If you
> did indeed mean to post this message here, then I'm sure everybody
> appreciates your efforts to keep us informed -- and hopefully they'll
> take the time to properly shower you with their gratitude.

> -- John Bodin
> Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> P.S. Yes, Indy was great -- there were only 8 caution flags for a
> total of 42 laps (out of 200 total); that means that 21% of the race
> was run under yellow. Saturday's Motorola 300 CART race, on the other
> hand, featured 9 yellows for a total of 72 laps (out of 236 total),
> which means that 30.5% of the CART race was run under yellow. Was one
> race better than the other? That's all a matter of opinion and
> preference -- both were great races, and I personally felt that this
> year's 500 was the most exciting in a long time, with a real
> nail-biter finish (EVERYBODY in the stands was on their feet for the
> last 5 laps). As for your incredibly insensitive remark about fan
> fatalities, need I remind you of the '98 CART season?

by **Glenn Campbel** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

How about treating the smaller media people better as well.

I had the good fortune to visit Indy with media credentials back in '93. We
got there to find that there was a mix up. Rather than simply working with
myself and the cameraman, these clowns gave us bare bones access (read:
nowhere). Thank goodness someone from Pennzoil handed some tickets around
and we got two. Couldn't shoot anything, but at least we saw the race.

This "holier than thou" attitude from IMS has darkened my opinion of the
whole "spectacle" and I have since refused to attend.

Shame on you, IMS.

Glenn

by **Ken Bear** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

And funny too, that a lot of people agree with John. And they DO have a
newsgroup, rec.autos.sport.indy . There aren't seperate CART and IRL
newsgroups, both use that one.

Notice something ironic. John has an opinion, and it's his "obvious bias".
You and the other poster have an opinion, and you "speak the truth". Seems
to me he didn't say anything negative about CART or it's race. He can enjoy
a race if HE wants to and doesn't need your or anyone elses approval. I
think I see who has a bias, and it ain't John Bodin.....

And, in regards to his original statement, this stuff IS OFF TOPIC HERE.
Take it to the newsgroup he informed y'all about and USE THAT ONE.

The end.

--
Ken's Sig 3.0

"Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan
Kenobi

Go #43 and #44!

volksy (at) geocities (dot) com
volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

>funny...but I bet alot of people are of the same opinion as
>him........because he speaks the truth....and as you stated in your
>post...you have a bias.....what's wrong?..doesnt IRL have a newsgroup or
>is it because no one would subscribe???

by **Kirk Lan** » Sat, 05 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I had the good fortune to visit Indy PERIOD in '93 :)
I was 9 yrs old!! I had a blast!! Shoot Tony George and get the CART
drivers back, and I'll pay my own way this time! :)

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652

RMRL #119

>How about treating the smaller media people better as well.

>I had the good fortune to visit Indy with media credentials back in '93.
We
>got there to find that there was a mix up. Rather than simply working with
>myself and the cameraman, these clowns gave us bare bones access (read:
>nowhere). Thank goodness someone from Pennzoil handed some tickets around
>and we got two. Couldn't shoot anything, but at least we saw the race.

>This "holier than thou" attitude from IMS has darkened my opinion of the
>whole "spectacle" and I have since refused to attend.

>Shame on you, IMS.

>Glenn

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