rec.autos.simulators

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

Mike Blackmor

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Mike Blackmor » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Rrevved is spot on PD NFS:PU is a blast,  It drives great looks great
(well better thatn great) and has atmosphere bythe bucketload.  Its
the only game that I have driven slowly round to take in the sights.

Cote D'Zur in the early evening wonderful....

Regards Mike



>hehe...Rrevved deary you should know better than to attempt so bald a
>bait with me....NFS:PU....whatever for. I have F1-2000 whose graphics
>are astounding...GP2 did great because there was no
>competition...thats not the case these days. F1-2000 will do fine to
>satisfy the urge to fly around F1 Kart Tracks....and its
>current...both tracks and drivers.

>PAPA DOC

>>Hey PD! Yep, if you want to buy a racing sim/game whose primary
>>feature is great graphics,  you may want to look elsewhere.

>>Have you tried out NFS:PU?

>>You should.. ;)

>Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
>Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 2 shootout...
>Flanker Target
>GPL Crash Dummy
>Video Card Wizard
>www.papadoc.net
>FALCON 4 Benchmarks
>Rants, Bullshit and Reviews

Pierre Legra

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Pierre Legra » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00

If GP3 looked half as good as Unreal there would be no problem at all.
The big difference is Unreal was revolutionary....GP3 sadly isnt.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Voodoo 5 vs Geforce Shootout
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Flanker Target
Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy
Aim-120 Propellent ***
Infamous Pink Flamingo Pilot...<VBG>
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www.papadoc.net

N..

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by N.. » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00


thus spoke:

It doesn't look bad PD. It sort of grows on you. GP3 is not as bad as
some would have you believe, it's not as good as others would have you
believe either. It's somewhere in the middle. :-)
--
Nos

Simon Brow

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Simon Brow » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00

GP3 is using your 3d card to draw all the triangles, just like any other
game.  Maybe you don't know much about 3d accelerator cards, but before
nVidia introduced the first GPU (Geometry-Processing-Unit) on the GeForce
256, all 3d cards ever did was draw 2d screen triangles, which is exactly
what the 3d card is used for in GP3.
A card like a Voodoo 3 for instance, can do nothing but draw 2d triangles
straight onto the screen.  The game engine has always been responsible for
transforming the triangles into screen-space, so when you say that GP3 is
only using D3D to display the results, well, that's how all games work.
As a programmer using D3D you have the option of writing your own
transformation code, or letting D3D do it itself, but both methods are done
entirely using your CPU, unless your card has a hardware transformation chip
on it, which of course, GP3 doesn't support anyway.
The graphical problems you see in GP3, like bad clipping, polygon
positioning errors, lack of perspective-correction on some textures, and
texture warping are all entirely fixable.  They are hang-overs from the
software engine, which is obviously optimized for maximum speed, but these
things haven't been corrected in the D3D code.  Clearly GP3 should have been
designed more with 3d cards in mind.
Simon.


> Before I begin, let me clarify that despite its shortcomings I do enjoy
GP3
> and find it to be a fun accessible sim-type game (careful choice of words
> there : ). Now on to my argument...

> After trying some tests, I've come to the conclusion that GP3 is not using
> 3D cards for acceleration. I believe the game is using 3D cards for
special
> effects and lighting ala Diablo II. In other words, the game is entirely a
> software engine. The only advantage of support for 3D accelerators, is for
> bi-linear filtering, lighting and higher resolutions. That's why the game
is
> limited to 25.6 fps out of the box. The game is using the software engine
to
> generate the polygons and just asking the Direct3D renderer to output its
> results. Notice that the game does not have a higher polygon count
depending
> on whether the software engine or the 3D accelerated engine is used? The
> main advantage of a 3D accelerator in GP3 is to allow for running in
higher
> resolutions. I have a GeForce 2 and no matter whether I run it at 640x480
or
> 1280x1024 in 3D mode, I get the exact same CPU occupancy.

> It's not unheard of to use a 3D card for lighting, Diablo II and Total
> Annihilation: Kingdoms both used 3D cards just for enhanced lighting and
> other effects. Just think of the performance they could get if GP3 was
> written from day one to use the onboard geometry of the newer 3D cards on
> the market? (Actually even the Voodoo2 released back in early 98 offloaded
a
> lot of the polygon processing from the CPU)

> Discuss amongst yourselves,

> Michael M


Karl Zose

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Karl Zose » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Oh dear.
Karl Zose

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Karl Zose » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00

It was massively INEFFECTIVE, it couldnt handle the hardware at the time.

IT WAS A BAD GRAPHICS ENGINE FROM THE START, EVEN IN 1996.
AND NOW THEY USE THE SAME ENGINE...

Yes Im shouting because Im getting sick of all you ignorant people.
Just because you gave your money, and eventually have fun with the game,
doesn't mean other people who get into things and compare it, can't
critisize it. Take a look at the other racing games, or at other recent
games to see what 3D looks like.
How the faster poligons really make things happen on your screen.

My God, Crammond and co must be really laugh their ass off with all you
naive suckers.

With GP2 they left out many stuff they had promised in the interviews and
the prewiews.
Promises,...promises and then they released an unfinished game (just check
all the data on the GP2 that wasn't used in the game). And did they ever
release an update or a patch? No, why should they: the money was in!

To me Crammond and co are just a bunch of crooks.



> > > But the framerate and the look is in my opninion way better in gp3
> > than f1.
> > > So 3d or not, why care?

> > > regards



> > > > Before I begin, let me clarify that despite its shortcomings I do
> > enjoy
> > > GP3
> > > > and find it to be a fun accessible sim-type game (careful choice of
> > words
> > > > there : ). Now on to my argument...

> > > > After trying some tests, I've come to the conclusion that GP3 is
> > not using
> > > > 3D cards for acceleration. I believe the game is using 3D cards for
> > > special
> > > > effects and lighting ala Diablo II. In other words, the game is
> > entirely a
> > > > software engine. The only advantage of support for 3D accelerators,
> > is for
> > > > bi-linear filtering, lighting and higher resolutions. That's why
> > the game
> > > is
> > > > limited to 25.6 fps out of the box. The game is using the software
> > engine
> > > to
> > > > generate the polygons and just asking the Direct3D renderer to
> > output its
> > > > results. Notice that the game does not have a higher polygon count
> > > depending
> > > > on whether the software engine or the 3D accelerated engine is
> > used? The
> > > > main advantage of a 3D accelerator in GP3 is to allow for running in
> > > higher
> > > > resolutions. I have a GeForce 2 and no matter whether I run it at
> > 640x480
> > > or
> > > > 1280x1024 in 3D mode, I get the exact same CPU occupancy.

> > > > It's not unheard of to use a 3D card for lighting, Diablo II and
> > Total
> > > > Annihilation: Kingdoms both used 3D cards just for enhanced
> > lighting and
> > > > other effects. Just think of the performance they could get if GP3
> > was
> > > > written from day one to use the onboard geometry of the newer 3D
> > cards on
> > > > the market? (Actually even the Voodoo2 released back in early 98
> > offloaded
> > > a
> > > > lot of the polygon processing from the CPU)

> > > > Discuss amongst yourselves,

> > > > Michael M

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

Karl Zose

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Karl Zose » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00





> >With GP2 they left out many stuff they had promised in the interviews and
> >the prewiews.

> Like..?

I guess you are too young to know :)

Do I really have to look for the old magazines?
I read so much at the time;, in fact I sold my Atari and bought a PC becasue
GP2 was arriving...

Vintoo

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Vintoo » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00

as usual, you don't comprehend what you read

Vintook








> >> >With GP2 they left out many stuff they had promised in the interviews
and
> >> >the prewiews.

> >> Like..?

> >I guess you are too young to know :)

> >Do I really have to look for the old magazines?
> >I read so much at the time;, in fact I sold my Atari and bought a PC
becasue
> >GP2 was arriving...

> Oops. I thought you were referring to GP3. My bad.

MichaelJ

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by MichaelJ » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Ian, how do you get the graphics running above 25fps?

- Michael

Graham Trigg

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Graham Trigg » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Ignorant? Well, I'm sick of all these people who think that because the
software and hardware renderers in GP3 don't show much difference, that
means the hardware version isn't very good... when in fact it's the software
renderer that is very, very, good.

How many F1 sims look as good as GP3? F1 2000 certainly doesn't...

G

Anders H. J?rgens

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Anders H. J?rgens » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00



>> GP3 runs at 1024 X 768 with all graphics on at 42fps and
>> totally blows F1 2000's graphics away.

>Ian, how do you get the graphics running above 25fps?

There is a crack on www.alphaf1.com/gp3 which allow the fps to exceed
25.
..
MVH
Anders H. J?rgensen,
der snart flytter til ?rhus.

Ronald Stoeh

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Ronald Stoeh » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00


> > Of course that may just mean that the GP 2 engine was out of date, but I

> It was massively INEFFECTIVE, it couldnt handle the hardware at the time.

> IT WAS A BAD GRAPHICS ENGINE FROM THE START, EVEN IN 1996.
> AND NOW THEY USE THE SAME ENGINE...

snip

> My God, Crammond and co must be really laugh their ass off with all you
> naive suckers.

I'm having fun with GP3 (hoping some of the bugs, esp. FF, are fixed).
If that makes me a sucker, I just found a new hobby.

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

MichaelJ

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by MichaelJ » Wed, 02 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Thanks,

- Michael

Pierre PAPA DOC Legra

GP3: Worst 3D Engine Ever?

by Pierre PAPA DOC Legra » Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Dont tell anyone but I have a copy....I know what it looks like..<G>
Im not impressed.....and text editing to adjust the graphics...neat
stuff.

Nope back to GPL....I will have to wait till the real genius makes a
Modern F1 game I be drawn away from GPL...like the guy who made GPL.
Though the World Sports Car guys are saying all the right things.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 2 shootout...
Flanker Target
GPL Crash Dummy
Video Card Wizard
www.papadoc.net
FALCON 4 Benchmarks
Rants, Bullshit and Reviews


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