rec.autos.simulators

> On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:14:11 -0500, "David G Fisher"

> >We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't do it. On the
> >rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I think it might be best if we
go
> >ahead with it if an overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y" or
"n"
> >poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed using TS) is
> >because we thought Brian had already disconnected. We also didn't know
Jan
> >had severe damage and would have to leave if no restart. After you both
> >disconnected, some of us mentioned that you two should probably try and
get
> >on TS. It would of helped us all make our decisions whether to restart,
and
> >I'm sure I would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be lost
for
> >the race.

> >Restart requests have been very rare in RASCAR, so if something really
> >unusual happens on lap1, I don't see the big deal in a restart if most
> >agree.

> I do need to get on TS, just haven't had the time...  However, it was
> probably good Sat. that I didn't have it... didn't have a whole lot of
> good things too say.  :)  BTW, I didn't vote on the restart because
> obviously I wanted a RS, but thought it best left up to those that
> were impartial.  I also think we need a hard and fast rule.  In
> another league I race in if once the leader completes a lap, no
> restarts are permitted but we will do them if we wreck on the first
> lap before leader completes a lap.  Normally we don't do re-starts in
> RASCAR and I am undecided on the subject and given the last race it is
> kinda hard to have an unbiased opinion on it right now.  Nothing is
> worse than starting 3rd and get getting punted on the first lap...
> well maybe starting 1st or 2nd...

> Also, sorry to Jan for not acknowledging your apology, I was pretty
> steamed and was trying to sort it all out before I responded and
> decided I needed to cool down before typing anything.  You didn't need
> to apologize though, you were as much, if not more, a victim of the
> whole thing than I was.

> Brian Oster

> How about we do a compromise here for the future:

> ONE restart is allowed to get everyone in the field.
> ONE restart is allowed if something bad happens on the first lap.
> AFTER the leader takes the first lap at the line, NO restarts are allowed.

> That should cover the 2 most common needs for a restart, and also set a
> hard-limit on when and if they are allowed.

> Our first-lap incidents have actually been quite low.  I think this would
> cover the odd times, and set a pre-defined limit so there is no need to
even
> talk about it beyond a certain point.

> Waddaya think ?

> -Larry

> > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:14:11 -0500, "David G Fisher"

> > >We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't do it. On
the
> > >rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I think it might be best if
we
> go
> > >ahead with it if an overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y"
or
> "n"
> > >poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed using TS) is
> > >because we thought Brian had already disconnected. We also didn't know
> Jan
> > >had severe damage and would have to leave if no restart. After you both
> > >disconnected, some of us mentioned that you two should probably try and
> get
> > >on TS. It would of helped us all make our decisions whether to restart,
> and
> > >I'm sure I would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be lost
> for
> > >the race.

> > >Restart requests have been very rare in RASCAR, so if something really
> > >unusual happens on lap1, I don't see the big deal in a restart if most
> > >agree.

> > I do need to get on TS, just haven't had the time...  However, it was
> > probably good Sat. that I didn't have it... didn't have a whole lot of
> > good things too say.  :)  BTW, I didn't vote on the restart because
> > obviously I wanted a RS, but thought it best left up to those that
> > were impartial.  I also think we need a hard and fast rule.  In
> > another league I race in if once the leader completes a lap, no
> > restarts are permitted but we will do them if we wreck on the first
> > lap before leader completes a lap.  Normally we don't do re-starts in
> > RASCAR and I am undecided on the subject and given the last race it is
> > kinda hard to have an unbiased opinion on it right now.  Nothing is
> > worse than starting 3rd and get getting punted on the first lap...
> > well maybe starting 1st or 2nd...

> > Also, sorry to Jan for not acknowledging your apology, I was pretty
> > steamed and was trying to sort it all out before I responded and
> > decided I needed to cool down before typing anything.  You didn't need
> > to apologize though, you were as much, if not more, a victim of the
> > whole thing than I was.

> > Brian Oster

> I would rather see NO restarts.  It never fails, if you make it through
the
> first wreck youre almost gauranteed to get caught up in the second time
> around ;-).  Is that fair?

> > How about we do a compromise here for the future:

> > ONE restart is allowed to get everyone in the field.
> > ONE restart is allowed if something bad happens on the first lap.
> > AFTER the leader takes the first lap at the line, NO restarts are
allowed.

> > That should cover the 2 most common needs for a restart, and also set a
> > hard-limit on when and if they are allowed.

> > Our first-lap incidents have actually been quite low.  I think this
would
> > cover the odd times, and set a pre-defined limit so there is no need to
> even
> > talk about it beyond a certain point.

> > Waddaya think ?

> > -Larry

> > > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:14:11 -0500, "David G Fisher"

> > > >We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't do it. On
> the
> > > >rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I think it might be best
if
> we
> > go
> > > >ahead with it if an overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y"
> or
> > "n"
> > > >poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed using TS)
is
> > > >because we thought Brian had already disconnected. We also didn't
know
> > Jan
> > > >had severe damage and would have to leave if no restart. After you
both
> > > >disconnected, some of us mentioned that you two should probably try
and
> > get
> > > >on TS. It would of helped us all make our decisions whether to
restart,
> > and
> > > >I'm sure I would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be
lost
> > for
> > > >the race.

> > > >Restart requests have been very rare in RASCAR, so if something
really
> > > >unusual happens on lap1, I don't see the big deal in a restart if
most
> > > >agree.

> > > I do need to get on TS, just haven't had the time...  However, it was
> > > probably good Sat. that I didn't have it... didn't have a whole lot of
> > > good things too say.  :)  BTW, I didn't vote on the restart because
> > > obviously I wanted a RS, but thought it best left up to those that
> > > were impartial.  I also think we need a hard and fast rule.  In
> > > another league I race in if once the leader completes a lap, no
> > > restarts are permitted but we will do them if we wreck on the first
> > > lap before leader completes a lap.  Normally we don't do re-starts in
> > > RASCAR and I am undecided on the subject and given the last race it is
> > > kinda hard to have an unbiased opinion on it right now.  Nothing is
> > > worse than starting 3rd and get getting punted on the first lap...
> > > well maybe starting 1st or 2nd...

> > > Also, sorry to Jan for not acknowledging your apology, I was pretty
> > > steamed and was trying to sort it all out before I responded and
> > > decided I needed to cool down before typing anything.  You didn't need
> > > to apologize though, you were as much, if not more, a victim of the
> > > whole thing than I was.

> > > Brian Oster

>How about we do a compromise here for the future:

>ONE restart is allowed to get everyone in the field.
>ONE restart is allowed if something bad happens on the first lap.
>AFTER the leader takes the first lap at the line, NO restarts are allowed.

>That should cover the 2 most common needs for a restart, and also set a
>hard-limit on when and if they are allowed.

>Our first-lap incidents have actually been quite low.  I think this would
>cover the odd times, and set a pre-defined limit so there is no need to even
>talk about it beyond a certain point.

>Waddaya think ?

>-Larry

>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:14:11 -0500, "David G Fisher"

>> >We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't do it. On the
>> >rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I think it might be best if we
>go
>> >ahead with it if an overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y" or
>"n"
>> >poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed using TS) is
>> >because we thought Brian had already disconnected. We also didn't know
>Jan
>> >had severe damage and would have to leave if no restart. After you both
>> >disconnected, some of us mentioned that you two should probably try and
>get
>> >on TS. It would of helped us all make our decisions whether to restart,
>and
>> >I'm sure I would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be lost
>for
>> >the race.

>> >Restart requests have been very rare in RASCAR, so if something really
>> >unusual happens on lap1, I don't see the big deal in a restart if most
>> >agree.

>> I do need to get on TS, just haven't had the time...  However, it was
>> probably good Sat. that I didn't have it... didn't have a whole lot of
>> good things too say.  :)  BTW, I didn't vote on the restart because
>> obviously I wanted a RS, but thought it best left up to those that
>> were impartial.  I also think we need a hard and fast rule.  In
>> another league I race in if once the leader completes a lap, no
>> restarts are permitted but we will do them if we wreck on the first
>> lap before leader completes a lap.  Normally we don't do re-starts in
>> RASCAR and I am undecided on the subject and given the last race it is
>> kinda hard to have an unbiased opinion on it right now.  Nothing is
>> worse than starting 3rd and get getting punted on the first lap...
>> well maybe starting 1st or 2nd...

>> Also, sorry to Jan for not acknowledging your apology, I was pretty
>> steamed and was trying to sort it all out before I responded and
>> decided I needed to cool down before typing anything.  You didn't need
>> to apologize though, you were as much, if not more, a victim of the
>> whole thing than I was.

>> Brian Oster

> It isn't quite that simple.  In my other league this actually happened
> before we came up with a rule:

> First lap, couple of guys wreck so we re-start.  On the restart I went
> to shift into 4th and had not 4th gear so my day was effectively done.
> We ended up re-starting again and all was ok, but if we had had the
> one-restart rule the guys that messed up the first lap got a second
> chance, and through no fault of my own I would have been screwed.  I
> think like Mitch said later in this thread, we may just want to avoid
> the whole re-start mess.

> Brian

> >How about we do a compromise here for the future:

> >ONE restart is allowed to get everyone in the field.
> >ONE restart is allowed if something bad happens on the first lap.
> >AFTER the leader takes the first lap at the line, NO restarts are
allowed.

> >That should cover the 2 most common needs for a restart, and also set a
> >hard-limit on when and if they are allowed.

> >Our first-lap incidents have actually been quite low.  I think this would
> >cover the odd times, and set a pre-defined limit so there is no need to
even
> >talk about it beyond a certain point.

> >Waddaya think ?

> >-Larry

> >> On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:14:11 -0500, "David G Fisher"

> >> >We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't do it. On
the
> >> >rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I think it might be best if
we
> >go
> >> >ahead with it if an overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y"
or
> >"n"
> >> >poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed using TS)
is
> >> >because we thought Brian had already disconnected. We also didn't know
> >Jan
> >> >had severe damage and would have to leave if no restart. After you
both
> >> >disconnected, some of us mentioned that you two should probably try
and
> >get
> >> >on TS. It would of helped us all make our decisions whether to
restart,
> >and
> >> >I'm sure I would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be
lost
> >for
> >> >the race.

> >> >Restart requests have been very rare in RASCAR, so if something really
> >> >unusual happens on lap1, I don't see the big deal in a restart if most
> >> >agree.

> >> I do need to get on TS, just haven't had the time...  However, it was
> >> probably good Sat. that I didn't have it... didn't have a whole lot of
> >> good things too say.  :)  BTW, I didn't vote on the restart because
> >> obviously I wanted a RS, but thought it best left up to those that
> >> were impartial.  I also think we need a hard and fast rule.  In
> >> another league I race in if once the leader completes a lap, no
> >> restarts are permitted but we will do them if we wreck on the first
> >> lap before leader completes a lap.  Normally we don't do re-starts in
> >> RASCAR and I am undecided on the subject and given the last race it is
> >> kinda hard to have an unbiased opinion on it right now.  Nothing is
> >> worse than starting 3rd and get getting punted on the first lap...
> >> well maybe starting 1st or 2nd...

> >> Also, sorry to Jan for not acknowledging your apology, I was pretty
> >> steamed and was trying to sort it all out before I responded and
> >> decided I needed to cool down before typing anything.  You didn't need
> >> to apologize though, you were as much, if not more, a victim of the
> >> whole thing than I was.

> >> Brian Oster

> When all of this "TALKING" took place I was asking Robert why he was the
> only one in front of me that didnt pass the pace car when we took the
yellow
> flag.  I was way back and didnt see the two others pit.  Robert was simply
> explaining to me (UNDER YELLOW) why I was directly behind him and not at
the
> front.  We werent just yappin about the weather.

> I had heard Dave and Larry talking about a BF but I was still sitting in
the
> pits getting fixed up.  By the time I got back on the track the green was
> just about to fly and I was still on the BS.  As I came around T4 I saw
one
> car low entering the pits but I wasnt real sure what was going on.  No
> sooner than the green flies and I get a BF.  I was pissed off and didnt
hear
> my spooter say say stop n go.   My day was officially over at that point
and
> I had things to do anyway.

> RASCAR has restarted races in the past but we don't have a rule one way or
> the other.  If EVERYONE had agreed to the restart then we would have.  I
> heard at least 2 guys say they didnt want a restart and IMO it was less
fair
> to restart at that point.  Say we did restart, then suppose we had a 2nd
lap
> wreck that took out 5-10 cars, should we then go into restart cycle until
> everyone is satisfied?  I dont think so.  1st lap wrecks suck but really
it
> could happen to any of us.   Im more for a rule against restarts than
trying
> to make everyone happy because obviously with this group youre NEVER going
> to make everyone happy EVER!.

> Mitch

> > "David G Fisher" wrote...
> > > > <snip>
> > > We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't
> > > do it. On the rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I
> > > think it might be best if we go ahead with it if an
> > > overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y" or "n"
> > > poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed
> > > using TS) is because we thought Brian had already
> > > disconnected. We also didn't know Jan had severe damage and
> > > would have to leave if no restart.

> > Even if you have someone present to make the calls who's not racing
> himself
> > it's hard to get an overview of the situation, never mind when the
> person(s)
> > in charge are in the race.

> > My advice in this matter is predictable: make the call and do it. If you
> > give people the opportunity to say no, some will and that only delays
> > matters.

> > At the time I would have appreciated a restart as I felt Brian and
myself
> > were dealt a bum hand by the game, but I don't want a race restarted
just
> > because *I* was involved either, if you know what I mean. I was
> comfortable
> > with accepting my faith.

> > > After you both disconnected, some of us mentioned that you
> > > two should probably try and get on TS. It would of helped us
> > > all make our decisions whether to restart, and I'm sure I
> > > would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be lost
> > > for the race.

> > I have two reasons for not using TS: I don't like using headphones to
race
> > and, from reports on the use of TS here and on the forum, there is
> entirely
> > too much talking going on for me not to get annoyed.

> > > <snip>

> > Jan.
> > =---

> I kinda feel that restarts breeds bad 1st lap behavior. Even though this
> wasn't the case this past weekend, that is how I feel. I could have
> benefited from a couple of restarts this year, but never asked because
that
> is fate. I hate it for the guys that got taken out, but thats just the way
> it is.
> grub

> > When all of this "TALKING" took place I was asking Robert why he was the
> > only one in front of me that didnt pass the pace car when we took the
> yellow
> > flag.  I was way back and didnt see the two others pit.  Robert was
simply
> > explaining to me (UNDER YELLOW) why I was directly behind him and not at
> the
> > front.  We werent just yappin about the weather.

> > I had heard Dave and Larry talking about a BF but I was still sitting in
> the
> > pits getting fixed up.  By the time I got back on the track the green
was
> > just about to fly and I was still on the BS.  As I came around T4 I saw
> one
> > car low entering the pits but I wasnt real sure what was going on.  No
> > sooner than the green flies and I get a BF.  I was pissed off and didnt
> hear
> > my spooter say say stop n go.   My day was officially over at that point
> and
> > I had things to do anyway.

> > RASCAR has restarted races in the past but we don't have a rule one way
or
> > the other.  If EVERYONE had agreed to the restart then we would have.  I
> > heard at least 2 guys say they didnt want a restart and IMO it was less
> fair
> > to restart at that point.  Say we did restart, then suppose we had a 2nd
> lap
> > wreck that took out 5-10 cars, should we then go into restart cycle
until
> > everyone is satisfied?  I dont think so.  1st lap wrecks suck but really
> it
> > could happen to any of us.   Im more for a rule against restarts than
> trying
> > to make everyone happy because obviously with this group youre NEVER
going
> > to make everyone happy EVER!.

> > Mitch

> > > "David G Fisher" wrote...
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > We had one or two who didn't want to restart, so we didn't
> > > > do it. On the rare occasion that a restart is suggested, I
> > > > think it might be best if we go ahead with it if an
> > > > overwhelming majority wants it during a quick "y" or "n"
> > > > poll using chat. Another reason we didn't do it (discussed
> > > > using TS) is because we thought Brian had already
> > > > disconnected. We also didn't know Jan had severe damage and
> > > > would have to leave if no restart.

> > > Even if you have someone present to make the calls who's not racing
> > himself
> > > it's hard to get an overview of the situation, never mind when the
> > person(s)
> > > in charge are in the race.

> > > My advice in this matter is predictable: make the call and do it. If
you
> > > give people the opportunity to say no, some will and that only delays
> > > matters.

> > > At the time I would have appreciated a restart as I felt Brian and
> myself
> > > were dealt a bum hand by the game, but I don't want a race restarted
> just
> > > because *I* was involved either, if you know what I mean. I was
> > comfortable
> > > with accepting my faith.

> > > > After you both disconnected, some of us mentioned that you
> > > > two should probably try and get on TS. It would of helped us
> > > > all make our decisions whether to restart, and I'm sure I
> > > > would have done it if I'd known the two of you would be lost
> > > > for the race.

> > > I have two reasons for not using TS: I don't like using headphones to
> race
> > > and, from reports on the use of TS here and on the forum, there is
> > entirely
> > > too much talking going on for me not to get annoyed.

> > > > <snip>

> > > Jan.
> > > =---