rec.autos.simulators

My point, erroneous as the number were, was that the lower numbers in
the first number mean faster steering.

--dave

I think I still haven't explained this well enough yet.

Perform this experiment...
  Go to Monza.
  Change your car setup so that the steering ratio is numerically as
low as it will go.
  Get into the car.
  While sitting still, turn the wheel to the lock.
  Note how far the front wheels deflect.
  Get out of the car.
  Change your car setup so that the steering ratio is numerically as
high as it will go.
  Get into the car.
  While sitting still, turn the wheel to the lock.
  Note that the front wheels have deflected exactly the same amount as
before.  WTH?
  Now, blast down the front straight at high speed.
  Lock up your brakes so that your car will continue straight down the
track.
  Turn your wheel to either lock and hold it there.
  While still moving at high speed, look at how much your front wheels
have deflected.  Note that it's much less than when you were sitting
still.
  Get out of the car.
  Change the car setup again so the steering ratio is numerically as
low as it will go.
  Blast down the front straight again, lock the brakes, and turn the
wheel to either lock.
  While still moving at high speed, note that your front wheels have
turned much more than when you were moving at high speed before, but
still not as much as when you were stopped.
  Continue to keep the brakes locked, and continue to hold the wheel at
its stop.
  As you slow down, note that once you get below ~60MPH, your front
wheels begin to deflect more and more, even though you're holding the
wheel steady.
  Hmmmm....

What can be inferred from these observations?

(1) The steering ratio while at a stop is not governed by the steering
ratio defined by the car setup.
(2) The steering ratio while at a stop is significantly lower (faster)
than what you can select on the car setup screen.
(3) Since the amount of front wheel deflection only begins to increase
as the vehicle speed decreases through ~60MPH, this effect is only
applied below that speed.  Above that speed, the steering ratio you've
defined for the car setup rules.
(4) If the maximum speed at which these shenanigans are applied is
reduced to ~15MPH from ~60MPH, you would have even *less* available
front wheel deflection to try and catch a low-speed (> ~15MPH, <
~60MPH) spin.

Ok, so that was a bit long winded.  But the experiment is informative
:-)

Randy

Well that is not true. a steering ratio is a fixed number.

Ok you are talking about the deflection that the tires and compliant
bushing have.  Well the tires will have a trail to them that effects the
steering, but in a Formula 1 car even that old will not use compliant
bushing, it should be using rod ends which have a compliance low enought to
not even look at.  This should still not effect the steering rate a 12:1
rate is a 12:1 rate no matter what you do.  The tires compliance or trail
does not effect the rate.  

You may be tryin to explain a the actaul steering ratio to the aparent
steering ratio when you take into account all the influencing factors that
tire and suspension compliance do.  Also the Chassis compliance will have
some effect too.

Dave

<snip>

Ok, what happens in a situation where you are see-sawing around 60 MPH?
How fast does the lock/ratio increase?
If you're in a long drift/slide and accellerating, wouldn't this make
car behaviour odd?
Or does it only happen at full lock? I guess not, since there have been
times
when I have wondered what has been going on, for example, in Tarzan at
Zandvoort.
I usually run 12:1 or 13:1.....

Hopefully, it explanins my erratic driving in Mexico :-)

I guess this is implemented for N3, since we don't really pit much in
GPL..?
It would be interesting to be able to turn it off completely, I'm used
to try to move
a racecar around in the paddock <g>

Matt
--
-----------------------------------------
Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
www.cheekracing.electra.no/GPL/simrace1.htm
-----------------------------------------

Hi Randy

what you have just described is called POWER STEERING
in the real world.
In power steering setups nowadays, they have speed
sensitive
power inputs.
High speed = low power assistance
Low speed= more power assistance

GPL in its old days should not have power steering.
I think we just found a bug !!!!!

article



| > I think 60 mph is too fast for the cutout of the
effect.
| > Sometimes if I slide in a slow turn, I can see that the
| > wheels aren't turning all the way to the locks, even
| > though I have the wheel turned all the way.  That makes
| > it hard to catch the spin.  Seems like the effect
should
| > be completely eliminated by the time you hit about 15
mph.
|
| I think I still haven't explained this well enough yet.
|
| Perform this experiment...
|   Go to Monza.
|   Change your car setup so that the steering ratio is
numerically as
| low as it will go.
|   Get into the car.
|   While sitting still, turn the wheel to the lock.
|   Note how far the front wheels deflect.
|   Get out of the car.
|   Change your car setup so that the steering ratio is
numerically as
| high as it will go.
|   Get into the car.
|   While sitting still, turn the wheel to the lock.
|   Note that the front wheels have deflected exactly the
same amount as
| before.  WTH?
|   Now, blast down the front straight at high speed.
|   Lock up your brakes so that your car will continue
straight down the
| track.
|   Turn your wheel to either lock and hold it there.
|   While still moving at high speed, look at how much your
front wheels
| have deflected.  Note that it's much less than when you
were sitting
| still.
|   Get out of the car.
|   Change the car setup again so the steering ratio is
numerically as
| low as it will go.
|   Blast down the front straight again, lock the brakes,
and turn the
| wheel to either lock.
|   While still moving at high speed, note that your front
wheels have
| turned much more than when you were moving at high speed
before, but
| still not as much as when you were stopped.
|   Continue to keep the brakes locked, and continue to
hold the wheel at
| its stop.
|   As you slow down, note that once you get below ~60MPH,
your front
| wheels begin to deflect more and more, even though you're
holding the
| wheel steady.
|   Hmmmm....
|
| What can be inferred from these observations?
|
| (1) The steering ratio while at a stop is not governed by
the steering
| ratio defined by the car setup.
| (2) The steering ratio while at a stop is significantly
lower (faster)
| than what you can select on the car setup screen.
| (3) Since the amount of front wheel deflection only
begins to increase
| as the vehicle speed decreases through ~60MPH, this
effect is only
| applied below that speed.  Above that speed, the steering
ratio you've
| defined for the car setup rules.
| (4) If the maximum speed at which these shenanigans are
applied is
| reduced to ~15MPH from ~60MPH, you would have even *less*
available
| front wheel deflection to try and catch a low-speed (>
~15MPH, <
| ~60MPH) spin.
|
| Ok, so that was a bit long winded.  But the experiment is
informative
| :-)
|
| Randy
|

    I agree..  With most steering wheels there is only like 240* or so of travel.
For those that don't modify their wheels to accommodate 360*+ it's a good idea to
have the current setup in GPL (Although it need to be adjusted some).  For those
of us that have 360*+, It's best to turn it completely off.

    BTW: I just figured out how to get that 360*+ :-)

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html

Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

--
-Gunslinger-

    woops, I think I said that backwards. (?)

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html

Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

I'll second that!!

And besides... the were no variable steering lock in '67 !! :-))
(Hell they aint even got it today....)

--
All the best,
Edwin Solheim *remove SPAM-GUARD in address to reply*
The Paddock - a legendary site....
<http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock>

Nah, what hes saying is ALL steering wheels can not turn more then one
complete turn. So there has to be a compromise.
e.g  how can you turn full lock if your computer wheel only does 270
degrees where as a real car can turn maybe 5 times lock to lock depend
on the car.

But you are half right also, because GPL dont support force feedback
and therefore feels just like an early days power steering without the
speed senced reduction.

--
Gadget???.
http://www.i-r-gadget.freeserve.co.uk
UIN 862812
Please remove the "NOWT" from email if replying.
soz bout tha speeling.

A quick stab to the left is the correct procedure, but if that doesn't
work and the car slides pointing to the right and slightly sideways,
I've noticed it usually rights itself by turning right.

Dave

Tadej