rec.autos.simulators

by **Cliff Roma** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

First, I think you have alot of built up anger that needs to be resolved.
Learn how to love yourself and then one day you may learn to love the world.

As for your post about Papy, CTS is going to be released as its own addon.
You do not have to buy the 3in1 package. It will probably be released for
about $20.

Oh and about how do they know how much money they are loosing. Well look at
this stat. Did you know that Deer Hunter was the best selling game out on
the market, it beat Quake2. Hmmm.. I would venture to bet that ALOT more
people played Quake 2 than Deer Hunter. So why did a game like Deer Hunter
outsell Quake 2? Because of the people that were pirating the game. What
kind of people play Quake 2? Kids, ***agers mostly, the biggest group
involved in pirating software. What kind of people play Deer Hunter? Well,
not people that I would put into the pirating group.

by **Andre Warring** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Indeed, only people with brains play Deer Hunter... ;)
I read that Deer hunter was sold in supermarkets etc for a low price.
Here in holland we have the same thing, a company called Davilex made
the worst racing game ever, A2 racer, and went immediately to the
number one position in the software charts. They also were selling
this game in every thinkable store for a low price.
Wifes see the game while they buy their groceries, and think 'hey
look, it's one of those computer thingies, and this is much cheeper
than the games my husband allways buys! He'll love this!'

Andre

<snip>

by **GraDe** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

May I just ask:
If you are not buying the product because you feel it is not up to your
standards then why would you download it an play it. Its the same game with
100's more bugs and niggly bits to put up with.

Make some sense!

by **Cliff Roma** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

My point was, they sold more copies of Deer Hunter than Q2, but more people
play Q2 than Deer Hunter.

Actually, back before Q3 and UT came out, you could probably go online and
count how many people were playing Q2 at one time and that was probably more
than the number of copies that Deer Hunter even sold. That is bad
considering Q2 sold even less.

I think at one time I read a article where they estimated that over 80% of
the Q2 copies out there were pirated.

Now how can people say that pirating does not hurt the game market? Q2 was
a great game, they deserved the money for the sales and if that many people
are playing it then it must have been good enough to buy. So why didn't
they?

> Indeed, only people with brains play Deer Hunter... ;)
> I read that Deer hunter was sold in supermarkets etc for a low price.
> Here in holland we have the same thing, a company called Davilex made
> the worst racing game ever, A2 racer, and went immediately to the
> number one position in the software charts. They also were selling
> this game in every thinkable store for a low price.
> Wifes see the game while they buy their groceries, and think 'hey
> look, it's one of those computer thingies, and this is much cheeper
> than the games my husband allways buys! He'll love this!'

> Andre

> <snip>

> > Because of the people that were pirating the game. What
> >kind of people play Quake 2? Kids, ***agers mostly, the biggest group
> >involved in pirating software. What kind of people play Deer Hunter?
Well,
> >not people that I would put into the pirating group.

by **L_NiN** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

OK, why would I go buy a $20,000 car just off the lot and never take it for
a test drive to find it is doesn't work right and I wasn't informed of the
various problems it had only told of the 'great features'...oh, and the car
dealers policy...you left with it you own it...we might get around to a
service patch for those brakes that don't work sometime in the next year or
so......

So, why wouldn't I download a PRICEY APPLICATION to determine if it is or is
not worth 3 ***y cents before I buy it with no option to get any type of
refund back if its a TURD.

OH and I do have stacks of shitty games that I DID BUY - and it has taught
me that if the industry does not wish to change to offer a more complete and
problem free products to their customers then *** THEM.

Your opinions will not stop anyone from downloading pirated software or from
copying cds and Im sure mine will not change yours so

###END###

> May I just ask:
> If you are not buying the product because you feel it is not up to your
> standards then why would you download it an play it. Its the same game
with
> 100's more bugs and niggly bits to put up with.

> Make some sense!

> > Say it with me....

> > LONG LIVE WAREZ! TO HELL WITH PUBLISHERS.....

> > If you can find a game online - DOWNLOAD IT - play it and unless are
truly
> > truly satisfied (aka GPL) don't spend money on it.

> > OH, no Bluto...don't download that warez software - someone might get
> hurt.
> > Well, GOOD!...because a few publisher need to be put on the hit list for
> > releasing poor titles with a lot of hype and no demo hoping to rake in
on
> > the drones that shop by the pretty pictures on the box alone. Oh, or
maybe
> > they go by the game mag review on page 32...followed by a full page AD
on
> > page 35.

> > I personally do not download warez anymore because it takes too damn
long
> > (analog line) - however, I do not buy just released titles either
(burned
> > way too much). A game will have to pass the test of time from the online
> > community before I purchase it. This is often a bonus because the price
> has
> > come down....my machine will more likely run it smoother and I WILL KNOW
> it
> > is a good game by the way the online community still talks about it.

> > Well, I for one am sick and tired of the game publishers pushing us
> > around...then they have the NERVE to complain about all the money they
are
> > loosing to piracy? Well, first off - tell me how you accurately
calculate
> > how much money was lost to pirated software? IF they know who is buying
it
> > and how much they are spending on it then why don't they stop them? OR
are
> > they counting everyone the downloads a title like F1-2000? I don't see
> that
> > as being accurate either because many people will download something
just
> > because it is there and they can - when in fact, if not given a piracy
> > option, those same people would have easily done without a title and not
> > even thought about paying for it.

> > I for one would like to see these big names REALLY take a hit (where it
> > counts - the WALLET) be it from WAREZ or just plain common sense
shopping
> > (which in all likelihood will never happen because of the millions of
> pretty
> > picture drones). LET THE ***ERS GO UNDER -- SELL THE FARM -- BITE THE
BIG
> > ONE.

> > OH, but who will make our great SIMS then....Well, how many of you cried
> for
> > MICROSOFT? Most of you were glad to see them taken down a "psuedo" notch
> > because that would open the playing field for the smaller and more
> inventive
> > guys....

> > But what if they just take their money and put it into some other genre?
> > GOOD LET THEM because they are just wasting their time and our money
> anyway.

> > -F1 2000 is EASports hyped bullshit built for EVERYMAN...COME ON - EA
does
> > not make a titles for the niches of the world.

> > -PAPYRUS - what have you done for me lately? sold me two awful rehashed
> > version of N2 with better graphics? Then sell an add on pack but only
> > include it in a boxed set of all three for the same price I paid for one
> of
> > them? OH, but they gave us GPL...SO ***ING WHAT - They forgot what got
> them
> > to the point they are at and need to be reminded.

> > GP3....a glimmer of hope shines in the far off distance...the return of
a
> > legend...or just another reunion tour to CASH IN?

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

You on a sugar high or did you just snort too much?

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> You are the same people who probably think Hollywood has not corrupted and
> trivialized out motion picture industry....HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU PAY TO
SEE
> TITANIC?

> LONG LIVE INDEPENDENT FILM
> maybe they don't have all the big money of Hollywood but they make much
> better products targeted at small segments of the population rather than
the
> mainstream sell-out lowest-common-denominator ***you like...oh, but I
> guess you just care about special fx and not any rational plot line or
> story...much like all of the games you will be able to buy very soon - BIG
> BUDGET PILES OF SHIT WITH PRETTY PICTURES.

> So, why couldn't Papy survive? I think they would do better without the
rule
> of iron-fisted bottom-line-minded big-brother Sierra...

> > "L_NiN0" 'wrote' in message

> > > LONG LIVE WAREZ! TO HELL WITH PUBLISHERS.....

> > <snip>
> > > I for one would like to see these big names REALLY take a hit (where
it
> > > counts - the WALLET) be it from WAREZ or just plain common sense
> shopping
> > > (which in all likelihood will never happen because of the millions of
> > pretty
> > > picture drones). LET THE F....

> > Yeh great idea - publishers see profits drop - rationalise their product
> > range - no more niche products.

> > Now on the other hand if the publishers flourish and millions more buy
> boxes
> > with pretty pictures then maybe they can withstand the luxury of letting
> > developers produce some flagship products which make relatively little
> money
> > but offer some prestige.

> > What future for Papyrus if Sierra feel the squeeze?

> > Tony

by **Bart-W. van Lit** » Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:00:00

> > LONG LIVE INDEPENDENT FILM

> You mean... independant film like.. Star Wars?

Oh come on....who'd pay for Titanic anyway ? I mean, we all know how it
end, don't we ?
Now, Star Wars was pretty good actually....although I thought Vader was
Chewie's father...

Yeah...think about it...if someone would cover his head with an ugly
helmet...I mean, what the heck would he look like underneath ?

hmmm....

Bart

by **ymenar** » Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Paramount and a little from 20th Century fox. Episode 1 was fully paid by
Lucas itself (the whole 125million !!<g>), so it's an independant film
without any control at all by Hollywood. Which is why is was brown-nosed a
little at the Oscar (probably diserved 2-3 more nomination such as Makeup,
Art Direction and Costume Design). And probably for Original score, and I
could debate on that alot since I personally feel Rachel Portman only had
her nomination because JW had Angela's Ashes in the 5nominees.

Yep, "Titanic II: The Search for More Money" LOL ok sorry... got out of the
subject here (SpaceBalls reference) ;)

"No Chewie... _I_ am your father" - Darth Vader

"Grrrooooowwwwlll!" - Chewbacca

I suggest you watch the last 15minutes of "Return of the Jedi" ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Stiff on** » Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:00:00

DARTH MAUL RULES!!!!!

> > Oh come on....who'd pay for Titanic anyway ?

> Paramount and a little from 20th Century fox. Episode 1 was fully paid by
> Lucas itself (the whole 125million !!<g>), so it's an independant film
> without any control at all by Hollywood. Which is why is was brown-nosed
a
> little at the Oscar (probably diserved 2-3 more nomination such as Makeup,
> Art Direction and Costume Design). And probably for Original score, and I
> could debate on that alot since I personally feel Rachel Portman only had
> her nomination because JW had Angela's Ashes in the 5nominees.

> > I mean, we all know how it
> > end, don't we ?

> Yep, "Titanic II: The Search for More Money" LOL ok sorry... got out of
the
> subject here (SpaceBalls reference) ;)

> > Now, Star Wars was pretty good actually....although I thought Vader was
> > Chewie's father...

> "No Chewie... _I_ am your father" - Darth Vader

> "Grrrooooowwwwlll!" - Chewbacca

> > Yeah...think about it...if someone would cover his head with an ugly
> > helmet...I mean, what the heck would he look like underneath ?

> I suggest you watch the last 15minutes of "Return of the Jedi" ;-)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Asbj?rn Bj?rnst** » Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:00:00

> My point was, they sold more copies of Deer Hunter than Q2, but more people
> play Q2 than Deer Hunter.

> Actually, back before Q3 and UT came out, you could probably go online and
> count how many people were playing Q2 at one time and that was probably more
> than the number of copies that Deer Hunter even sold. That is bad
> considering Q2 sold even less.

I have heard the same being said about GPL. "People who knew what they
were talking about said that GPL sold 30.000 copies, yet 250.000 race
it on the internet each weekend."

What I would like to know is where all those people are.
--
[asbjxrn] [lLd25z*%ds1-100/sLlSdI%ds2-O/sSl1l2*PlL0<l]sl
21172310731916131628237117 3237142523312SSSLllxq

by **Eldre** » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00

250,000 each weekend? Yeah, I'd like to know where they are, too. I think the
most I've seen on VROC is about 100...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>> I for one would like to see these big names REALLY take a hit (where it
>> counts - the WALLET) be it from WAREZ or just plain common sense shopping
>> (which in all likelihood will never happen because of the millions of
>pretty
>> picture drones). LET THE F....

>Yeh great idea - publishers see profits drop - rationalise their product
>range - no more niche products.

>Now on the other hand if the publishers flourish and millions more buy boxes
>with pretty pictures then maybe they can withstand the luxury of letting
>developers produce some flagship products which make relatively little money
>but offer some prestige.

>What future for Papyrus if Sierra feel the squeeze?

>Tony

Wait - are you saying you WANT people to keep buying the games (which may or
may not be worth it) sight unseen? That would just turn more people away from
being legit if they get burned by a bad title...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Cliff Roma** » Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:00:00

That is what demos and reviews are for.

You will always have available to you at least one of those if not both.

You can also talk to others who have bought the game.

There is no reason that you need to buy a game the day it comes out unless
you are confident that you will want it. Wait for reviews and/or a demo.
Usually there will be tons of sites doing revies on the games. Read their
other reviews on games that you know you liked or disliked and see how they
reviewed them. You can tell by that if they think along the same lines as
you do and you will be able to find a site that you can trust.

> >> I for one would like to see these big names REALLY take a hit (where it
> >> counts - the WALLET) be it from WAREZ or just plain common sense
shopping
> >> (which in all likelihood will never happen because of the millions of
> >pretty
> >> picture drones). LET THE F....

> >Yeh great idea - publishers see profits drop - rationalise their product
> >range - no more niche products.

> >Now on the other hand if the publishers flourish and millions more buy
boxes
> >with pretty pictures then maybe they can withstand the luxury of letting
> >developers produce some flagship products which make relatively little
money
> >but offer some prestige.

> >What future for Papyrus if Sierra feel the squeeze?

> >Tony

> Wait - are you saying you WANT people to keep buying the games (which may
or
> may not be worth it) sight unseen? That would just turn more people away
from
> being legit if they get burned by a bad title...

> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Fri, 07 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>That is what demos and reviews are for.

>You will always have available to you at least one of those if not both.

>You can also talk to others who have bought the game.

>There is no reason that you need to buy a game the day it comes out unless
>you are confident that you will want it. Wait for reviews and/or a demo.
>Usually there will be tons of sites doing revies on the games. Read their
>other reviews on games that you know you liked or disliked and see how they
>reviewed them. You can tell by that if they think along the same lines as
>you do and you will be able to find a site that you can trust.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning warez. I have no intention of
downloading any. But I can understand people wanting to try the game first.
There still isn't a demo yet, right? And, demos don't always give you correct
info(see:Toca2). As far as listening to other peoples' opinion, look at the
current arguments. Some people love F1 2000 with a passion, some hate it with
that same passion... Some liked GPL but hated SCGT. I like them both, so I
couldn't have used their opinion on SCGT.

I've bought games simply on the reputation of the company. SSI wargames and
Papy racing sims come to mind. I bought GPL the first time I saw it in the
store. Although my system met the minimum requirements, I couldn't run it well
enough to enjoy it. It sat on my shelf for a couple of months until I could
afford to upgrade my system.

If you can find a store that offers return with no questions, then I'd go along
with that. Someone mentioned that there's an EB in a mall near me, so I'll try
that.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

rec.autos.simulators

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!

Long Live WAREZ!