rec.autos.simulators

Although its far from a true sim it comes fairly close to the real thing
in quite a few aspects. Too bad it has too many faults that it can't be
called a sim. Can't lock up the front brake when turning. Can't break
the back tire loose under hard corner exit. Handling is too slow at slow
to medium speeds. The bike falls into the turns too easily. Screen tilt
is too much in 1st person view. Transition from full gas to full braking
happens way too slowly. I could go on but I won't.

But there still isn't a cycle race game that can be called a sim. That's
not saying much in this very limited sim cycle crowd of gee one, Castrol
Honda. But you know what, even with all these faults its the best cycle
race sim so far. Is this game suppose to even be close to a sim?

Its kinda buggy too. Pauses for a few SECONDS now and then for some
strange reason. Track graphics are quite good but the bikes and riders
are pretty poor looking.

I can only pray the get a real racer to give them input to this game
before they make it golden. It has alot of potential. Kinda like the
Alien vs Predator demo has potential but has alot wrong with it.

Its 20mb.

Go get it(gp500.zip) at:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

or www.3dfiles.com has it too

I can't say much more at this time, but I will keep everyone in r.a.s.
informed...

Later,

Trips

Neil M.

Hopefully it will allow you to slide the bike, be able to lift the front
wheel (body position as in Motocross Madness), accelerate and brake with
analogue control. I can't see how all of this could be achieved with one
analogue joystick but I hope that it can!

A true motorcycle sim might just divert my attention from GPL, nothing else
interest me much anymore!

Ian

rdracer

Pardon my ignorance, but are you going to be simulating the same class
that the Harley VR-1000 races in?  That would be the only reason for me
(personally) to buy this sim...

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Trips

I'm guessing that the MS Sidewinder or Saitek Cyborg type sticks may be
more appropriate... With four analog axes on the stick, you might be
looking at something like throttle/brake on the slider, lean on the
stick itself, and steering of the forks by twisting the handle...

Trips

Which brings up another point... why isnt there a motorcycle controller out
there simular to a wheel???? Surely there are not enuff of motorcycle games
out there to warrant one!

Caster

Not only lean, but pedals, too - Maybe you could get away with cheating
on the gear shifter (much as that would suck), but a serious controller
would really need a halfway realistic rear brake pedal as well.

Then again, despite the marginal market size and potential complexity,
it's an idea whose time has come - makes you wonder why Logitech and
Thrustmaster keep on pursuing the FPS market when it's patently obvious
that the keyboard/mouse combo is almost impossible to beat.

Oh well - miscellaneous rantings...

Neil M.

This is kind of a chicken & egg situation. Certainly one of the biggest
limitations on a modern motorcycle sim is the input device. Most are
simplified to make it possible to use a joystick or steering wheel and
have the game actually be playable. That means you fudge the physics and
response a little bit. But what comes first; the definitive motorcycle
sim that requires a custom controller, or the quality custom controller
that allows designers to create realistic sims? I think Logitech,
Thrustmaster, or Microsoft is going to have to take the plunge and build
one of these things in order for hard core bike sims to begin to
proliferate. Otherwise, we'll continue to get motorcycle arcade games,
passed off as sims by licensing big racing names.

-MikeC

A thought just occurred to me that would work reasonably well. The
design would have a conventional handlebar design that would
steer by the yaw axis, but the whole assembly (including pivot)
can also tilt in the roll axis either way - ideally with force feedback
in both axes to simulate headshake and gyroscopic effect.

For pedals, I'm guessing that you'd need a design that sits under
your chair instead of way out in front. By doing this, it would be
easy to design it in such a way that your heel rests on the "peg"
(although there might not actually be a peg for structural reasons)
and you could upshift or downshift without lifting the structure
off the ground.

Neil M.

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% This is kind of a chicken & egg situation. Certainly one of the biggest
% limitations on a modern motorcycle sim is the input device. Most are
% simplified to make it possible to use a joystick or steering wheel and
% have the game actually be playable. That means you fudge the physics and
% response a little bit. But what comes first; the definitive motorcycle
% sim that requires a custom controller, or the quality custom controller
% that allows designers to create realistic sims? I think Logitech,
% Thrustmaster, or Microsoft is going to have to take the plunge and build
% one of these things in order for hard core bike sims to begin to
% proliferate. Otherwise, we'll continue to get motorcycle arcade games,
% passed off as sims by licensing big racing names.

I had a similar conversation with someone at Thrustmaster a few months
ago.  Until motorcyle sims pick up in sales (car games/sims far out-sell
motorcyle sims), there is no "incentive" for a manufacturer to spend the
development and production dollars on a unit that will provide them a
profitable margin.  So until some really hot motorcyle sims come out and
also sell well across the board, we probably won't see any controllers
from the major players.  It looks like we need some more chickens before
we get any eggs. :-)

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**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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Sure, but consider the competition for a moment. There are a lot of driving
sims, but the competition for steering wheels is really stiff - there are so
many wheels out there these days. The first company to make a good
motorcycle controller is going to have the market to itself. Sure, it may be
a comparitively small market, but a whole market nonetheless.

Neil M.

"What is this wire here for?"
"It's to keep the bolt from backing out from vibration"
"Oh.......good idea"

Robin