rec.autos.simulators

> On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:00:22 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >My sources say MS wants the Xbox Next (i.e., Lite, w/o a HD, with a lower
> >price point) in stores before Xmas.  That would tend to indicate both the
> >PS3 and the Xbox 2 (Internet Appliance/Set-Top Convergence Duz-All) will
> >roll out before Xmas '04.  Exciting times, huh?

> Damn.

> The other thing I'm wondering is how much a machine with 72 RISC chips
> is going to cost.  Even if they sell at half or one third of the cost
> to build, that's got to be like $3k to 4k at least...  Not to mention
> the cooling requirements, the mainframe-sized case, etc.  Sounds like
> a killer machine if what they're proposing is true, but just looking
> at how much similar RISC solutions (well as close as we can get, like
> a fully loaded Sunfire) cost, I dunno.

> Jason

> WOW! Can I add a keyboard so I can run Wordperfect 4.2 for DOS?

> 1. they still arn't sure if they can do it and 2. Programing will be a gut
> ache and i dought many programmers will take the time. 3. with all that
> proccessing power how big will the games be and on what type of cd will it
> come and 4. i have also heard that the p3 is no longer looking at being a
> concole machine, its being developed simular to a settop box that will
> handle every need of the home.


> > From a siliconvalley.com news story:

> > "With the PS3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a single chip:
> > eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which controls eight auxiliary
> > processors.

> > "Using sophisticated software to manage the workload, the PowerPC
> processors
> > will divide complicated problems into smaller tasks and tap as many of
the
> > auxiliary processors as necessary to tackle them.

> > "...Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those
> > processors at maximum efficiency, the PS3 will be able to process a
> trillion
> > math operations per second -- the equivalent of 100 Intel Pentium 4
chips
> > and 1,000 times faster than processing power of the PS2."

> > Or abt. 500 times faster than the Xbox.

> Sony wouldn't be doing this if the PS3 was going to cost MORE.  As rich as
> Sony is, they know they can't bleed MS to death by underpricing/dumping
the
> PS2/3 (MS is losing a billion bucks a year on the Xbox - at this rate,
> they'll be broke by A.D. 2400!)  Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive.  My
> guess is they'll be using something like Flash memory in the nextgen
> consoles.  Like the hoary razor-blade paradigm, the h/w will come down to
> $100 and they'll have to score some MAJOR hits with $25-$40 games.  This
is
> where Sony shines...and where MS is weak.  Which is why Sony will rule the
> currently contested turf, and MS will move upscale, positioning the Xbox 2
> as a living-room device, a PC-TV convergence appliance.  Can MS succeed
> here?  Watch BMW and wireless convergence devices (cells, PDAs).  If MS
can
> get BMW's UI back on track, they might be able to win the battle for yer
> couch.

> > On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:00:22 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > >My sources say MS wants the Xbox Next (i.e., Lite, w/o a HD, with a
lower
> > >price point) in stores before Xmas.  That would tend to indicate both
the
> > >PS3 and the Xbox 2 (Internet Appliance/Set-Top Convergence Duz-All)
will
> > >roll out before Xmas '04.  Exciting times, huh?

> > Damn.

> > The other thing I'm wondering is how much a machine with 72 RISC chips
> > is going to cost.  Even if they sell at half or one third of the cost
> > to build, that's got to be like $3k to 4k at least...  Not to mention
> > the cooling requirements, the mainframe-sized case, etc.  Sounds like
> > a killer machine if what they're proposing is true, but just looking
> > at how much similar RISC solutions (well as close as we can get, like
> > a fully loaded Sunfire) cost, I dunno.

> > Jason

> 1. They can...and will.

> 2. When a game like Gran Turismo can gross over a billion U.S. dollars,
it's
> worth the "gut ache".

> 3. Blue laser.

> 4. No, that's the Xbox 2.

> > 1. they still arn't sure if they can do it and 2. Programing will be a
gut
> > ache and i dought many programmers will take the time. 3. with all that
> > proccessing power how big will the games be and on what type of cd will
it
> > come and 4. i have also heard that the p3 is no longer looking at being
a
> > concole machine, its being developed simular to a settop box that will
> > handle every need of the home.


> > > From a siliconvalley.com news story:

> > > "With the PS3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a single
chip:
> > > eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which controls eight auxiliary
> > > processors.

> > > "Using sophisticated software to manage the workload, the PowerPC
> > processors
> > > will divide complicated problems into smaller tasks and tap as many of
> the
> > > auxiliary processors as necessary to tackle them.

> > > "...Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those
> > > processors at maximum efficiency, the PS3 will be able to process a
> > trillion
> > > math operations per second -- the equivalent of 100 Intel Pentium 4
> chips
> > > and 1,000 times faster than processing power of the PS2."

> > > Or abt. 500 times faster than the Xbox.

> "Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive"
> Every look at the cost of flash memory compared to HD memory lately?  HD
are
> much cheaper.

> > Sony wouldn't be doing this if the PS3 was going to cost MORE.  As rich
as
> > Sony is, they know they can't bleed MS to death by underpricing/dumping
> the
> > PS2/3 (MS is losing a billion bucks a year on the Xbox - at this rate,
> > they'll be broke by A.D. 2400!)  Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive.
My
> > guess is they'll be using something like Flash memory in the nextgen
> > consoles.  Like the hoary razor-blade paradigm, the h/w will come down
to
> > $100 and they'll have to score some MAJOR hits with $25-$40 games.  This
> is
> > where Sony shines...and where MS is weak.  Which is why Sony will rule
the
> > currently contested turf, and MS will move upscale, positioning the Xbox
2
> > as a living-room device, a PC-TV convergence appliance.  Can MS succeed
> > here?  Watch BMW and wireless convergence devices (cells, PDAs).  If MS
> can
> > get BMW's UI back on track, they might be able to win the battle for yer
> > couch.

> > > On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:00:22 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > > >My sources say MS wants the Xbox Next (i.e., Lite, w/o a HD, with a
> lower
> > > >price point) in stores before Xmas.  That would tend to indicate both
> the
> > > >PS3 and the Xbox 2 (Internet Appliance/Set-Top Convergence Duz-All)
> will
> > > >roll out before Xmas '04.  Exciting times, huh?

> > > Damn.

> > > The other thing I'm wondering is how much a machine with 72 RISC chips
> > > is going to cost.  Even if they sell at half or one third of the cost
> > > to build, that's got to be like $3k to 4k at least...  Not to mention
> > > the cooling requirements, the mainframe-sized case, etc.  Sounds like
> > > a killer machine if what they're proposing is true, but just looking
> > > at how much similar RISC solutions (well as close as we can get, like
> > > a fully loaded Sunfire) cost, I dunno.

> > > Jason

> No need for blue laser, current games don't fill DVDs as is, lots of room
to
> work with yet on current media.

> > 1. They can...and will.

> > 2. When a game like Gran Turismo can gross over a billion U.S. dollars,
> it's
> > worth the "gut ache".

> > 3. Blue laser.

> > 4. No, that's the Xbox 2.

> > > 1. they still arn't sure if they can do it and 2. Programing will be a
> gut
> > > ache and i dought many programmers will take the time. 3. with all
that
> > > proccessing power how big will the games be and on what type of cd
will
> it
> > > come and 4. i have also heard that the p3 is no longer looking at
being
> a
> > > concole machine, its being developed simular to a settop box that will
> > > handle every need of the home.


> > > > From a siliconvalley.com news story:

> > > > "With the PS3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a single
> chip:
> > > > eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which controls eight
auxiliary
> > > > processors.

> > > > "Using sophisticated software to manage the workload, the PowerPC
> > > processors
> > > > will divide complicated problems into smaller tasks and tap as many
of
> > the
> > > > auxiliary processors as necessary to tackle them.

> > > > "...Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those
> > > > processors at maximum efficiency, the PS3 will be able to process a
> > > trillion
> > > > math operations per second -- the equivalent of 100 Intel Pentium 4
> > chips
> > > > and 1,000 times faster than processing power of the PS2."

> > > > Or abt. 500 times faster than the Xbox.

> Yes, but HDs are near the end of their cycle; flash mem is at the
beginning.
> HDs aren't getting cheaper, they're getting bigger.  There is a base cost
in
> gear like cases, motors, heads, etc. - all those 'spensive moving parts.
So
> we're not getting 80-Mb. HDs for $10, we're getting 80-Gb HDs for $100.
> SSNV (solid-state non-volatile) mem will go the other way - we'll be
getting
> 256-Mb. Flash cards for $10.

> > "Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive"
> > Every look at the cost of flash memory compared to HD memory lately?  HD
> are
> > much cheaper.

> > > Sony wouldn't be doing this if the PS3 was going to cost MORE.  As
rich
> as
> > > Sony is, they know they can't bleed MS to death by

> > the
> > > PS2/3 (MS is losing a billion bucks a year on the Xbox - at this rate,
> > > they'll be broke by A.D. 2400!)  Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive.
> My
> > > guess is they'll be using something like Flash memory in the nextgen
> > > consoles.  Like the hoary razor-blade paradigm, the h/w will come down
> to
> > > $100 and they'll have to score some MAJOR hits with $25-$40 games.
This
> > is
> > > where Sony shines...and where MS is weak.  Which is why Sony will rule
> the
> > > currently contested turf, and MS will move upscale, positioning the
Xbox
> 2
> > > as a living-room device, a PC-TV convergence appliance.  Can MS
succeed
> > > here?  Watch BMW and wireless convergence devices (cells, PDAs).  If
MS
> > can
> > > get BMW's UI back on track, they might be able to win the battle for
yer
> > > couch.

> > > > On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:00:22 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > > > >My sources say MS wants the Xbox Next (i.e., Lite, w/o a HD, with a
> > lower
> > > > >price point) in stores before Xmas.  That would tend to indicate
both
> > the
> > > > >PS3 and the Xbox 2 (Internet Appliance/Set-Top Convergence Duz-All)
> > will
> > > > >roll out before Xmas '04.  Exciting times, huh?

> > > > Damn.

> > > > The other thing I'm wondering is how much a machine with 72 RISC
chips
> > > > is going to cost.  Even if they sell at half or one third of the
cost
> > > > to build, that's got to be like $3k to 4k at least...  Not to
mention
> > > > the cooling requirements, the mainframe-sized case, etc.  Sounds
like
> > > > a killer machine if what they're proposing is true, but just looking
> > > > at how much similar RISC solutions (well as close as we can get,
like
> > > > a fully loaded Sunfire) cost, I dunno.

> > > > Jason

> "Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive"
> Every look at the cost of flash memory compared to HD memory lately?  HD
are
> much cheaper.

> > Sony wouldn't be doing this if the PS3 was going to cost MORE.  As rich
as
> > Sony is, they know they can't bleed MS to death by underpricing/dumping
> the
> > PS2/3 (MS is losing a billion bucks a year on the Xbox - at this rate,
> > they'll be broke by A.D. 2400!)  Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive.
My
> > guess is they'll be using something like Flash memory in the nextgen
> > consoles.  Like the hoary razor-blade paradigm, the h/w will come down
to
> > $100 and they'll have to score some MAJOR hits with $25-$40 games.  This
> is
> > where Sony shines...and where MS is weak.  Which is why Sony will rule
the
> > currently contested turf, and MS will move upscale, positioning the Xbox
2
> > as a living-room device, a PC-TV convergence appliance.  Can MS succeed
> > here?  Watch BMW and wireless convergence devices (cells, PDAs).  If MS
> can
> > get BMW's UI back on track, they might be able to win the battle for yer
> > couch.

> > > On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:00:22 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > > >My sources say MS wants the Xbox Next (i.e., Lite, w/o a HD, with a
> lower
> > > >price point) in stores before Xmas.  That would tend to indicate both
> the
> > > >PS3 and the Xbox 2 (Internet Appliance/Set-Top Convergence Duz-All)
> will
> > > >roll out before Xmas '04.  Exciting times, huh?

> > > Damn.

> > > The other thing I'm wondering is how much a machine with 72 RISC chips
> > > is going to cost.  Even if they sell at half or one third of the cost
> > > to build, that's got to be like $3k to 4k at least...  Not to mention
> > > the cooling requirements, the mainframe-sized case, etc.  Sounds like
> > > a killer machine if what they're proposing is true, but just looking
> > > at how much similar RISC solutions (well as close as we can get, like
> > > a fully loaded Sunfire) cost, I dunno.

> > > Jason

> 1. They can...and will.

> 2. When a game like Gran Turismo can gross over a billion U.S. dollars,
it's
> worth the "gut ache".

> 3. Blue laser.

> 4. No, that's the Xbox 2.

> > 1. they still arn't sure if they can do it and 2. Programing will be a
gut
> > ache and i dought many programmers will take the time. 3. with all that
> > proccessing power how big will the games be and on what type of cd will
it
> > come and 4. i have also heard that the p3 is no longer looking at being
a
> > concole machine, its being developed simular to a settop box that will
> > handle every need of the home.


> > > From a siliconvalley.com news story:

> > > "With the PS3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a single
chip:
> > > eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which controls eight auxiliary
> > > processors.

> > > "Using sophisticated software to manage the workload, the PowerPC
> > processors
> > > will divide complicated problems into smaller tasks and tap as many of
> the
> > > auxiliary processors as necessary to tackle them.

> > > "...Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those
> > > processors at maximum efficiency, the PS3 will be able to process a
> > trillion
> > > math operations per second -- the equivalent of 100 Intel Pentium 4
> chips
> > > and 1,000 times faster than processing power of the PS2."

> > > Or abt. 500 times faster than the Xbox.

>Sony wouldn't be doing this if the PS3 was going to cost MORE.  As rich as
>Sony is, they know they can't bleed MS to death by underpricing/dumping the
>PS2/3 (MS is losing a billion bucks a year on the Xbox - at this rate,
>they'll be broke by A.D. 2400!)  Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive.

>On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:14:57 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>>Sony wouldn't be doing this if the PS3 was going to cost MORE.  As rich as
>>Sony is, they know they can't bleed MS to death by underpricing/dumping the
>>PS2/3 (MS is losing a billion bucks a year on the Xbox - at this rate,
>>they'll be broke by A.D. 2400!)  Chips are cheap.  HDs are expensive.

>Even if they were able to attain chips at the cost of $50 each (which
>is a fraction of what RISC, chips, PowerPC in particular, cost to
>manufacture), you'd be looking at $3600 for the CPU's alone.  I highly
>suspect that the 72-cpu thing is either a***or mis-reported news (by
>whomever you took that info from, not you).

>"With the PS3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a
>----->single chip:<-----  eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which
>controls eight auxiliary processors."

>On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 02:48:31 +0100, Magnus Svensson

>>"With the PS3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a
>>----->single chip:<-----  eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which
>>controls eight auxiliary processors."

>Ahhhh.  Yeah that should be a bit of a clue I suppose.

>Still, I've been reading that the early 16-cpu version of the PS3
>takes up about 10 rack spaces and requires an SGI workstation as a
>controller.