rec.autos.simulators

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

Andre Warring

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Andre Warring » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

No. With the converter, everyone knows what it does. It convert tracks
from other sims to GPL. You know what you get.

F1 2000 is something completely different. How does it run on my
system with 20 AI's? How are the physics? Those are things I want to
find out for myself before I buy a product like this. Opinions about
graphic quality and physics differ greatly, and I want to test it out
myself.

I only read positive posts about Rally Masters. I 'tested' it, and
deleted it after one hour of testing, I absolutely don't like it.
Saved 100 guilders by testing it myself instead of believing all the
positive posts.

Wait a moment, we had this discussion allready with the f1 2000 warez
version...

Andre



>So you are saying that if Dave would not have put out a demo, it would have
>been ok for everyone to pirate it?

>*COUGH* BS *COUGH*



>> I downloaded the warez version of F1 2000, because there is no demo,
>> and I want to know what I get if I buy something. Liked it and bought
>> it.
>> There is a converter demo out, so there is NO reason to download the
>> full version for 'testing'.

>> If you have any selfrespect, you download the demo from
>> www.theuspits.com, try it, and if you like it, you B-U-Y the full
>> version.

>> >>>>>>>>>.
>> using warez is wrong, no matter what your excuse.
>> Rik Anthrax
>>            -
>>      -
>> it's a GPL kinda day  :)

Phillip McNell

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Phillip McNell » Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I have mixed feelings about this.

I suppose if Dave has never in his life never used a piece of software
that he was not entitled to then he could now justifiably complain. If
not then not. The boot is simply on the other foot in that case and
you have to take as good as you gave.

There is an enormous amount of camaraderie of support on the web for
people with our interests. 99.999% of it is absolutely free. It's
produced and provided free by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts. If we had
to pay someone every time we got advice, used a utility, down-loaded a
scenery or sound patch or whatever, it would be a sad sad day for
lovers of these sims and for those who enjoy the club friendship
atmosphere that is usually here.

There have been many great utilities and patches over the years. 100s
I would guess. Of all these only a couple have required payment that I
can remember. ( And I paid for them as at the time I thought they were
worth it. Both involved new tracks for the sims I liked as it happens
).

In a scene where most are helping everyone else for free, out of a
feeling of common good and friendship, what happens when someone up
and wants to be paid for their particular contribution ? Is this a bit
like a boy scout who suddenly says " hey why should I help people for
nothing when they might pay for this ? "

I have to say that it doesn't sit entirely well with me. I have spent
many hours over the years doing small things that others have used to
help with their sim racing. There is never any intention of asking for
payment. Lots of other have done much more than me and never asked for
a brass razoo.

The situation here is that DN is probably the only person who has the
expertise to do what he does. And when there is a monopoly all issues
of fairness get thrown out the window. You either pay the price or do
without as there's nowhere else to go.

In GP2 this same situation happened. The first people to figure out
how to make new tracks sold them. But then as others found out how to
do it too there were many more tracks available for free than you
could ever ask for.

The difference here is that no one seems to be sharing information on
how to create GPL tracks. This in itself is a bit selfish imo.

Remember how in GP2 everyone helped everyone else until there were
dozens of people who could make very good tracks. And the sim racing
world was all the better for it. If DN shared his information, rather
than keep it secret as he seems to do, then we might have any number
of great tracks to race on by now instead of what merge offerings come
up from time to time from his exclusive pen. And having thus made no
effort to help others make tracks he then charges people for his, as
the only viable source for same.

OK some are saying that this is great. And in a way it is. But it
certainly doesn't make me feel all gooey inside with admiration for
DN. He is a selfish capitalist, like many others are. OK so that's his
right in the world we live in and good luck to him. But don't ask me
to consider him as some kind a philanthropistic  god or hero that is
beyond reproach as many here seem to feel he should be regarded.

Instead of***ing the ground DN walks on, think of all the other
great tracks we might already have by now if DN choose to share his
info, as many others have done without any fee involved, instead of
hogging it for himself. We may have Le Mans, Bathurst, etc etc, and
all for free.

I feel a greater sense of gratitude to all the many others who have
also put in many hours of work for their efforts. But in their cases
they have shared their information around and not asked a cent for
their results. More power to them I say.

For your information, I have bought and paid for the real converter
from My Noonan. That's the deal and I accept it.

Cheers

Phillip McNelley

TRUSRS

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by TRUSRS » Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Online racing on VROC would be hell if everybody could create their own
tracks!!!!!!!!!!
Phillip McNell

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Phillip McNell » Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:00:00

If the server couldn't be sure that everyone was using the same
version of the same track then I have to agree with you.

If the situation is ....

share the track making info around and have lots of the word's great
tracks to race on, build by many idividuals, but loose racing
integritity ... or ...

have relatively few tracks built by only 1 or 2 grouips but maintain
racing integrity ...

then I have to agree that racing integritity is parramount.

This doesn't stop me from wishing there was a way we could have more
of the world's great tracks, build by many track makers, AND maintain
racing integrity though, AND that these tracks were available to
everyone for free.

It seems that GPL tracks take a long time to make. Much longer than
GP2 tracks did. It seems beyond the capability of just a couple of
groups to do much more than produce 1 track in 6 months if we are
lucky. This being the apparent case it'd be nice if more could be
working on these projects.

Wouldn't it be great to race GPL cars on the modern Suzuka track,
Bathurst, to name jsut a couple ?

Cheers

Phillip McN

??artij

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by ??artij » Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:00:00

If you want to make a really good track in GP2, it may take well over 6
months. That's at least what it took me to do everything satisfactory. The
fact that it takes an individual such a long time is masked by the fact
that many people may release tracks in the meantime. As GP2's trackeditor
was an open development, many more people could make tracks.
Then again, the tracks are more complex in GPL.
We'll see ;-)

Mark Stah

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Mark Stah » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

GraDee-

i kind of see what you're saying here, but as someone who only did a small
amount of programming in a former life and has essentially no chance of
paying dave back with a utility of my own, i was actually kind of glad in a
strange way to be able to pay Mr. Noonan for his hard work, and encourage
him to do more of the same.  this is saying alot coming from a cheap-ass
student like myself :)

BTW, my news server does not have any actual files in this thread. hopefully
they were cancelled. shame on whoever posted them, if indeed they were
posted.

abut the converter.

Full credit to Dave for putting in so much hard woks and effort. I
compliment him.
However, I would love to know the reaction if Papy made a converter and made
people pay.
It wouldn't be the same.

Hell even Microsoft give away a free converter.

Maybe I'm wrong again here but people everywhere put alot of work into
thousands if not millions of adons and stuff and give the but free of
change, no questions asked. It works in a knida circle.
If I give this guy my addon for free, he'll let me have his addon for free.
Thats how the net works. We pay for addons with our own. If it weren't like
that nobody would have anything and nobody would bother to pay anything. Its
like the "code" of internet ***. Even the smallest of download can often
mean hours or days of work for someone.

I'm not into warez and I give full credit to Dave from what he's one but
this isn't really sticking to the "code". It like: People might be willing
to pay for this, lets try it! Not so much: Wow, I've done a good job here ,
everyone will be so pleased to get this.

Again, well done Dave, but that just ain't good nettin'

Chris Bloo

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Chris Bloo » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

What utilitys did Microprose put out after GP2.  As far as I
remember they didn't release one byte of software for GP2 after
it had been released.

I know there was a third party release of stuff gathered from
the internet called "Grand Prix Magic".  This just had carsets
and helmets and stuff.  There was also the first "new" tracks
which was a seperate release from IA or something?

Neither of these had anything to do with Microprose though.

Chris



>Microprose even put together a selection of GP" "community"
utils for sale.
>Again to hit the more average GP2 fan (who wouldn't be aware of
the
>downloads)

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William Yowel

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by William Yowel » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

There is a lot of rationalization going on here. The issue is not "good netting"
or what ever Microprose or some one else might put out for free. If some one
offers something you would like for money, it's your choice to buy it or not. If
you get it without buying it, you are stealing it and are a thief. All the
rationalizing in the world will not change that. Whether the product is worth
the charge or whether something like it can be legally obtained for free is for
you to add to the mix in making the decision whether to buy it. No one owes it
to you.

In this case, Dave Noonan's converter is worth more that he charges for it; it
has opened up GPL to an extent that few of us even imagined. Any one who
downloads a pirated version is a thief, and trying to make excuses for doing so
does not say good things for their character. Just my $0.02.
Bill Yowell


> GraDee-

> i kind of see what you're saying here, but as someone who only did a small
> amount of programming in a former life and has essentially no chance of
> paying dave back with a utility of my own, i was actually kind of glad in a
> strange way to be able to pay Mr. Noonan for his hard work, and encourage
> him to do more of the same.  this is saying alot coming from a cheap-ass
> student like myself :)

> BTW, my news server does not have any actual files in this thread. hopefully
> they were cancelled. shame on whoever posted them, if indeed they were
> posted.

> >>Before I start, I'm not downloading this but something I kind wish to say
> abut the converter.

> Full credit to Dave for putting in so much hard woks and effort. I
> compliment him.
> However, I would love to know the reaction if Papy made a converter and made
> people pay.
> It wouldn't be the same.

> Hell even Microsoft give away a free converter.

> Maybe I'm wrong again here but people everywhere put alot of work into
> thousands if not millions of adons and stuff and give the but free of
> change, no questions asked. It works in a knida circle.
> If I give this guy my addon for free, he'll let me have his addon for free.
> Thats how the net works. We pay for addons with our own. If it weren't like
> that nobody would have anything and nobody would bother to pay anything. Its
> like the "code" of internet ***. Even the smallest of download can often
> mean hours or days of work for someone.

> I'm not into warez and I give full credit to Dave from what he's one but
> this isn't really sticking to the "code". It like: People might be willing
> to pay for this, lets try it! Not so much: Wow, I've done a good job here ,
> everyone will be so pleased to get this.

> Again, well done Dave, but that just ain't good nettin'

Pops

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Pops » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

Hey Chris...

"Hell even Microsoft give away a free converter"

MicroSOFT...not MicroPROSE!

Pops...


Chris Bloo

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Chris Bloo » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

I wasn't replying to Mark Stahl I was replying to Toby Rikard

Microprose even put together a selection of GP" "community"
utils for sale. Again to hit the more average GP2 fan (who
wouldn't be aware of the downloads)

Maybe my message got in the wrong part of the thread:0

Chris



>Hey Chris...

>Mark Stahl wrote...

>"Hell even Microsoft give away a free converter"

>MicroSOFT...not MicroPROSE!

>Pops...


message

>> What utilitys did Microprose put out after GP2.

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Rikanthr

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Rikanthr » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

There is a lot of rationalization going on here. The issue is not "good
netting"
or what ever Microprose or some one else might put out for free. If some one
offers something you would like for money, it's your choice to buy it or not.
If
you get it without buying it, you are stealing it and are a thief. All the
rationalizing in the world will not change that. Whether the product is worth
the charge or whether something like it can be legally obtained for free is for
you to add to the mix in making the decision whether to buy it. No one owes it
to you.

In this case, Dave Noonan's converter is worth more that he charges for it; it
has opened up GPL to an extent that few of us even imagined. Any one who
downloads a pirated version is a thief, and trying to make excuses for doing so
does not say good things for their character. Just my $0.02.
Bill Yowell

well said Bill!!!
Rik Anthrax
           -
     -
it's a GPL kinda day  :)

Pops

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Pops » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00


> I wasn't replying to Mark Stahl I was replying to Toby Rikard

> Microprose even put together a selection of GP" "community"

Aha!  I see, said the blind man!  Please accept my apologies for jumping in
and spouting off.

Sincerely...

Pops...

Chris Bloo

For those that love Warez. Dave's GPL Converter Full not Demo - I2n2gplConverterFull.rar (0/1)

by Chris Bloo » Tue, 02 May 2000 04:00:00

Apology accepted:)



>Aha!  I see, said the blind man!  Please accept my apologies
for jumping in
>and spouting off.

>Sincerely...

>Pops...

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