rec.autos.simulators

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

Larr

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by Larr » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 00:56:00

Good heavens, who dug up this dead horse :)

-Larry




>> > Three years is actually a long time in sim development.

>> For a company like Simbin or ISI that is using a ready made engine and
>> has a team of nearly 50 people involved, yes.  RL is a three man show
>> and they use no existing engines at all.  Like I said, I spent a lot
>> longer than three years just on my physics engine.  In fact, I'm at the
>> six and a half year mark right now and am still working on things.
>> IIRC, LFS was in development for 5 years before they put out the very
>> first demo, and it didn't go on sale for some time after that.  If S3
>> is their "final, finished product" that they set out to make, well,
>> you're looking at something like 10 years total.  It cracks me up when
>> folks that have never written a sim before argue with me over how long
>> development tasks should take <bg>

>> With the
>> > development of hardware (processors, gpu's, physics cards, etc) always
>> > evolving, it's very difficult to create a sim today that will still be
>> > considered "state of the art" three years from now.

>> Your own development experience backs this up?

>> Anyway, I disagree.  A system I wrote recently won't be able to run on
>> PC's in a game environment for many years to come.  But it's sitting
>> there ready to go when the CPU horsepower arrives.  In game development
>> you ALWAYS plan things for future hardware that will be out when you
>> think the project will be finished.  Just par for the course and very
>> routine.

>> Besides, RL has
>> > supposedly "been in development" for more than three years -- it's
>> > simply been three years since the transport was "showcased" on the
>> > website.  I would have assumed that the sim was pretty close to
>> > completion three years ago if the developers had time for details such
>> > as that!

>> The transporter took Tony probably a week or two to model.  This
>> delayed RL absolutely zero.  You need to code the engine to a certain
>> point before you need to worry about artwork at all.  The artist can
>> not go into any serious production mode during this period.

>> If I recall correctly, in Virtual RC Racing we were coding for four or
>> five years before Tony came along and did all our models.  He did the
>> artwork so fast we were still coding when he was finished with all the
>> game content.  We have ten or twelve tracks included in VRC that were
>> done in no time.  By the time we released it he had another ten or so
>> ready to go for expansion packs and so on.  I think he's got something
>> like 25 or 30 tracks finished for us now.  He could have done 100
>> transporters in that time and it would not have effected our release
>> date (or RL's for that matter) one minute.

>> Argue with me if you want.  Let's see what you've personally done in
>> sim development first though ;-)

>> I  know that GTR, GTR2, rF, GTL and LFS has
>> > kept me plenty busy during that time!

>> Me too :-)  Fun stuff for sure.  My personal favorites are LFS and GTL
>> :-)

> Todd,

> Most of what you write is true, but I still have seen no evidence that
> RL will ever actually be completed and available to the public.  I'd
> love to be proven wrong though...

> I agree that developers have to code for "future" hardware, but there
> is a practical limit to that, since it would be difficult to predict
> what hardware advances will be available 5-10 years from now.  Should
> you code for faster processors or multi-multi-core?  How many poly's
> will our graphics cards be pushing in 5-10 years?  What new physics
> card technology will be available?  etc...

> Anyway, I'm not saying a 3 man team "should" be able to create a
> state-of-the-art sim in three years or less.  I believe it could take
> many more years than that.  I just don't think it is a wise business
> move for the reasons I stated above.  Now if they are doing it just for
> fun or a learning experience, then I say more power to em!

> Regards,
> CK

Mitch_

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by Mitch_ » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:47:14

The initial reaction to RL was just about universal praise and hope (at that
time frame GPL was in serious need of a replacement).  By year 2 that
enthusiasm all but disappeared based on the reality of what we saw of RL or
rather the Hauler.  As this thread points out the fault was on the West's
(purposefully misleading or not).  Then as now everyone involved should just
be quiet about it (NDA quiet) until you actually have something to show the
world.

I hope we get something like RL but till then GTR2 rocks the house!

Mitch


> Nobody knows when it'll be released, not even Gregor or Chris.  Chris
> is enjoying the process of coding it (especially in peace and quiet now
> without the incessant bashing).  It'll be released when they're happy
> with it.

Larr

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by Larr » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:28:50

We're on what, year 6 now :)

-Larry


> The initial reaction to RL was just about universal praise and hope (at
> that time frame GPL was in serious need of a replacement).  By year 2 that
> enthusiasm all but disappeared based on the reality of what we saw of RL
> or rather the Hauler.  As this thread points out the fault was on the
> West's (purposefully misleading or not).  Then as now everyone involved
> should just be quiet about it (NDA quiet) until you actually have
> something to show the world.

> I hope we get something like RL but till then GTR2 rocks the house!

> Mitch


>> Nobody knows when it'll be released, not even Gregor or Chris.  Chris
>> is enjoying the process of coding it (especially in peace and quiet now
>> without the incessant bashing).  It'll be released when they're happy
>> with it.

Lancelo

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by Lancelo » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 06:11:01


LOL Hey it takes a long time to develope a sim. Make a donation, buy a mug
or T-shirt and help the effort!

> -Larry



>> The initial reaction to RL was just about universal praise and hope (at
>> that time frame GPL was in serious need of a replacement).  By year 2
>> that enthusiasm all but disappeared based on the reality of what we saw
>> of RL or rather the Hauler.  As this thread points out the fault was on
>> the West's (purposefully misleading or not).  Then as now everyone
>> involved should just be quiet about it (NDA quiet) until you actually
>> have something to show the world.

>> I hope we get something like RL but till then GTR2 rocks the house!

>> Mitch


>>> Nobody knows when it'll be released, not even Gregor or Chris.  Chris
>>> is enjoying the process of coding it (especially in peace and quiet now
>>> without the incessant bashing).  It'll be released when they're happy
>>> with it.

Larr

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by Larr » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 06:28:02

I would, but it would take them 10 years to paint the damned thing.

-Larry




>> We're on what, year 6 now :)

> LOL Hey it takes a long time to develope a sim. Make a donation, buy a mug
> or T-shirt and help the effort!

>> -Larry



>>> The initial reaction to RL was just about universal praise and hope (at
>>> that time frame GPL was in serious need of a replacement).  By year 2
>>> that enthusiasm all but disappeared based on the reality of what we saw
>>> of RL or rather the Hauler.  As this thread points out the fault was on
>>> the West's (purposefully misleading or not).  Then as now everyone
>>> involved should just be quiet about it (NDA quiet) until you actually
>>> have something to show the world.

>>> I hope we get something like RL but till then GTR2 rocks the house!

>>> Mitch


>>>> Nobody knows when it'll be released, not even Gregor or Chris.  Chris
>>>> is enjoying the process of coding it (especially in peace and quiet now
>>>> without the incessant bashing).  It'll be released when they're happy
>>>> with it.

jason moye

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by jason moye » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 06:36:03


> Chris
> is enjoying the process of coding it (especially in peace and quiet now
> without the incessant bashing).

If they had gotten some decent people to moderate their forums, I don't
see why Tony couldn't have kept posting renders to keep people
interested in the product.  Having a big "here we are, this is what
we're working on" announcement and not releasing a product for a long
time is probably not a big deal to most people, the complete
disappearance of information on the other hand...  Granted, they might
not care, but I certainly would check in on them every month or so to
see what Tony's been modelling or to read a bit from Gregor or Chris on
the engine side of things.
Lancelo

racing legends update - 3 years, 1 week and counting

by Lancelo » Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:48:15


Oh comon now with 3 guys painting it I wouldn't think more than a couple
years. Unless you keep changing the design?





>>> We're on what, year 6 now :)

>> LOL Hey it takes a long time to develope a sim. Make a donation, buy a
>> mug or T-shirt and help the effort!

>>> -Larry



>>>> The initial reaction to RL was just about universal praise and hope (at
>>>> that time frame GPL was in serious need of a replacement).  By year 2
>>>> that enthusiasm all but disappeared based on the reality of what we saw
>>>> of RL or rather the Hauler.  As this thread points out the fault was on
>>>> the West's (purposefully misleading or not).  Then as now everyone
>>>> involved should just be quiet about it (NDA quiet) until you actually
>>>> have something to show the world.

>>>> I hope we get something like RL but till then GTR2 rocks the house!

>>>> Mitch


>>>>> Nobody knows when it'll be released, not even Gregor or Chris.  Chris
>>>>> is enjoying the process of coding it (especially in peace and quiet
>>>>> now
>>>>> without the incessant bashing).  It'll be released when they're happy
>>>>> with it.


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.