rec.autos.simulators

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

ymenar

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by ymenar » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 08:33:10


> Slightly OT. But the fact that Villeneuve has done nothing with BAR shows
> the difference between a good driver and great ones like Schumacher,
Prost,
> Senna, et al. When Schumacher joined  Ferrari they were just also rans
> living off their history (Just as Prost did all those years ago).

Please, you're still talking about the Scuderia Ferrari here.  It's not like
Michael hopped into a very low-budget team having difficulties.  He went
into a large-budget team (in fact, even back then it was the largest) with
the best engineer and manager of that time to put the team back on track.
I'm not taking anything out of that success, but it's far different then a
completely new team, with inexperimented staff and so.

You know, Jacques got the pole in his first race and should have won it in
F1 no? :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

b

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by b » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:18:43

ok i can accept 'seat'

do you know that the driver that finishes last in the indy 500, has a
larger purse than the richest GP race? :D

ancient discussions... without definitive answer-

JV and baseball is a joke on players here making absurd $
one player has a 250 million dollar contract for 10 years service.
the average salary is 2.1 Million, and for many that spend most of the
time on the reserve bench-

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:30:06 -0400, "ymenard"



>> we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst
>> in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such
>> would  include alex yoong.
>> do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or
>> gil de ferran? helio castro neves?

>Read again ;)   I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about
>being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One.  I should
>have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat",
>especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART
>still going on.

>>and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player

>LOL?

>--
>-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
>-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
>-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
>Corporation - helping America into the New World...

b

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by b » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:19:02

yes ok.. i can accept 'seat'....

the ONE thing i prefer about CART over any other series, is often
overlooked. CART actually has a very varied system to determine the
champion.

in nascar (and IRL).. primarily ovals...
in F1... road circuits
CART... road circuits, temp street circuits, short ovals, speedways
the only thing they lack is a  heritage, steeped in tradition. i think
as ignorant as most here in USA are of F1, there is equal snobishness
in europe that CART is not as good. until you see both in person i
would caution judgement.

i've been a indycar fan siince '57... and an F1 fan since '62 yes i'm
an old fart.. but i know what i'm talking about :D and thr current
state of affairs here between CART/IRL is tearing the guts from our
enjoyment. and my guess is CART will die in 2 years, or become a
feeder for IRL. and IRL will begin to add road courses over the next
couple years so that in 3 or 4 a transition will phase out CART and
there will be one major US based open wheeled organization again.

 the joke of JV + baseball is aimed at the players here making
astronomical $$... one player is being paid 25 MILLION a year, to
'play' baseball...his contract is 250 mil for 10 years.

the  average player makes 2.1 million! this in many cases is for
sitting on the bench most of the time......

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:30:06 -0400, "ymenard"



>> we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst
>> in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such
>> would  include alex yoong.
>> do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or
>> gil de ferran? helio castro neves?

>Read again ;)   I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about
>being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One.  I should
>have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat",
>especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART
>still going on.

>>and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player

>LOL?

>--
>-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
>-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
>-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
>Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Carl Smit

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Carl Smit » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:30:32

I loved watching Jacques in CART and was at Elkhart Lake when he won his
first CART race.

It would be great to see him come back but I can't blame him. Like others
have said, F1 is still the most prestigious open wheeled racing series in
the world (well, at least in Europe ;-). Think about what he'd be leaving
and what he'd be going to. CART is in BIG financial trouble. Although F1's
viewership is down...it's still F1. The cars, the glamour, the pit babes,
the corporate parties, the prestige! Who would want to willingly leave that!
:-)

Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last
one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in
F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving
for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he
grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus.
And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as
one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for
a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for
Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he
doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a
Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha!

BTW, here's a link to the full story

http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/12413


> yes ok.. i can accept 'seat'....

> the ONE thing i prefer about CART over any other series, is often
> overlooked. CART actually has a very varied system to determine the
> champion.

> in nascar (and IRL).. primarily ovals...
> in F1... road circuits
> CART... road circuits, temp street circuits, short ovals, speedways
> the only thing they lack is a  heritage, steeped in tradition. i think
> as ignorant as most here in USA are of F1, there is equal snobishness
> in europe that CART is not as good. until you see both in person i
> would caution judgement.

> i've been a indycar fan siince '57... and an F1 fan since '62 yes i'm
> an old fart.. but i know what i'm talking about :D and thr current
> state of affairs here between CART/IRL is tearing the guts from our
> enjoyment. and my guess is CART will die in 2 years, or become a
> feeder for IRL. and IRL will begin to add road courses over the next
> couple years so that in 3 or 4 a transition will phase out CART and
> there will be one major US based open wheeled organization again.

>  the joke of JV + baseball is aimed at the players here making
> astronomical $$... one player is being paid 25 MILLION a year, to
> 'play' baseball...his contract is 250 mil for 10 years.

> the  average player makes 2.1 million! this in many cases is for
> sitting on the bench most of the time......

> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:30:06 -0400, "ymenard"


> >> we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst
> >> in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such
> >> would  include alex yoong.
> >> do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or
> >> gil de ferran? helio castro neves?

> >Read again ;)   I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about
> >being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One.  I should
> >have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat",
> >especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART
> >still going on.

> >>and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player

> >LOL?

> >--
> >-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> >-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> >Corporation - helping America into the New World...

checkmysignat..

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by checkmysignat.. » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:51:59


>Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last
>one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in
>F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving
>for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he
>grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus.
>And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as
>one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for
>a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for
>Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he
>doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a
>Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha!

I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump
Villeneuve?  Didn't he win the DC in '97?  That's like dumping
MShumacher after winning a DC.  If Villeneuve had a capable car, would
he be able to have a chance at another DC?  He's not doing so well at
BAR.  Or is it the fact that he's getting paid a lot of money already,
and plus he has won the DC before, he has no reason to try harder
anymore.  

I'd love to see a Barrichello/Montoya of Ferrari vs
Villeneuve/RShumacher of Williams.  

--
karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

Dave Henri

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Dave Henri » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:23:57


      it was not so much that Williams dumped JV, but BAR was starting up,
one of the two team principas was his manager and his contract with Williams
was up for negotiation.
        JV wanted to go to BAR, BAR wanted JV and Williams didn't want to
match the salary that JV would get at BAR.
        Remember also that for most teams the Drivers Championship is just a
bonus.  The manufacturer championship is what they all strive for.

dave henrie

Tony Van Caute

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Tony Van Caute » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 18:16:21

generally spoken, if a world champion leaves a team he just won with,
somebody made mistake, and usually I guess it is the driver itself

I can't see a team making a logic decision to dump such a driver

Villeneuve might have been the new Schumacher if he stayed with a good
team, and not a new team which is bound to not get to a podium the first
5 years

BAR is completely dead now

well, I guess he earned more money there - some drivers have got
different priorities in their career



> >Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last
> >one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in
> >F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving
> >for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he
> >grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus.
> >And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as
> >one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for
> >a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for
> >Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he
> >doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a
> >Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha!

> I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump
> Villeneuve?  Didn't he win the DC in '97?  That's like dumping
> MShumacher after winning a DC.  If Villeneuve had a capable car, would
> he be able to have a chance at another DC?  He's not doing so well at
> BAR.  Or is it the fact that he's getting paid a lot of money already,
> and plus he has won the DC before, he has no reason to try harder
> anymore.

> I'd love to see a Barrichello/Montoya of Ferrari vs
> Villeneuve/RShumacher of Williams.

> --
> karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

--

  Tony.Van.Cauter.vcf
< 1K Download
Alan Gauto

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Alan Gauto » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:15:23


says...

On the contrary, Villeneuve made what must have seemed a reasonable move
when he left Williams they year after he won his championship - after all
he won no races in the 1998 Williams, and with the Supertec/Meccachrome
engine they were down on power, and the BMW tie-in hadn't been confirmed.
Williams had also lost Adrian Newey to McLaren, and Reynard had been
successful quickly in CART etc. Also, Jacques is supposed to be a
shareholder in BAR, as is Craig Pollock, though exact %-ages have never
been openly declared (again iirc).

Williams have a reputation of losing their champions for various reasons
- Mansell with his ego/distrust of working with Prost, Hill supposedly
over money (though never confirmed iirc), Prost deciding to retire, ...

--
AG

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Never for me the lowered banner, never the last endeavour!
                                            (Damon Hill - 16th June 1999)

Rafe McAuliff

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Rafe McAuliff » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:05:51

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:50:12 -0400, "Jesse Black"


>Maybe JV enjoys road courses, massive braking forces, nimble handling cars,

How do you figure that CART doesn't offer any of those points? Fair
enough that CART cars are not as fast as F1 (6 secs slower I guess)
but they are still extraordinary pieces of machinery. And CART was
just as fast at Montreal as F1 was only 2 years ago. The difference is
not what you are suggesting...

Rafe Mc

ymenar

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by ymenar » Sun, 01 Sep 2002 01:15:11


> I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump
> Villeneuve?

Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions.  Anyway, Williams was
really not a good team this year, they were rebuilding.  Craig Pollock
started BAR, and since it was his ex-agent and best friend, he went to BAR.
There was some politics here and also lotsa business reasons.

another DC?

He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal car.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenar

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by ymenar » Sun, 01 Sep 2002 01:17:15


> >Maybe JV enjoys road courses, massive braking forces, nimble handling
cars,

> How do you figure that CART doesn't offer any of those points?

No, it's just easy to figure that F1 offers this *more* then CART :)

The Montral track back then was longer, at the most vital place in the
circuit (the slowest part).

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Brad Larocqu

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Brad Larocqu » Sun, 01 Sep 2002 01:50:38

Didn't Williams decide not to keep Damon Hill after his championship year?

> generally spoken, if a world champion leaves a team he just won with,
> somebody made mistake, and usually I guess it is the driver itself

> I can't see a team making a logic decision to dump such a driver

> Villeneuve might have been the new Schumacher if he stayed with a good
> team, and not a new team which is bound to not get to a podium the first
> 5 years

> BAR is completely dead now

> well, I guess he earned more money there - some drivers have got
> different priorities in their career



>>>Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last
>>>one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in
>>>F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving
>>>for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he
>>>grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus.
>>>And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as
>>>one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for
>>>a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for
>>>Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he
>>>doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a
>>>Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha!

>>I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump
>>Villeneuve?  Didn't he win the DC in '97?  That's like dumping
>>MShumacher after winning a DC.  If Villeneuve had a capable car, would
>>he be able to have a chance at another DC?  He's not doing so well at
>>BAR.  Or is it the fact that he's getting paid a lot of money already,
>>and plus he has won the DC before, he has no reason to try harder
>>anymore.

>>I'd love to see a Barrichello/Montoya of Ferrari vs
>>Villeneuve/RShumacher of Williams.

>>--
>>karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

> --

Brad Larocqu

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Brad Larocqu » Sun, 01 Sep 2002 01:56:35

Ah, but getting and equal car is the trick in F1 isn't it? Any given
year there are 2 or 3 top flight team, a few mid packers, and then there
's BAR. What they need to do is find some decent engineers to design a
proper car. After 4 years  on the circuit they should have learned
SOMETHING by now. Like I stated earlier in this thread even Stewart
improved each year they were around. Or perhaps if Jacques took a year
off they could put his salary into development and maybe come back with
a competitive machine.

This is what I enjoy about CART. Competitive machinery is offered to all
teams. No team is obligated to develop their own chassis and engine
(Penske used to be successful at it of course). Reynards and Lolas are
available to EVERYONE. It's just what the team engineers and mechanics
do with the equipment that may hinder performance.



>>I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump
>>Villeneuve?

> Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions.  Anyway, Williams was
> really not a good team this year, they were rebuilding.  Craig Pollock
> started BAR, and since it was his ex-agent and best friend, he went to BAR.
> There was some politics here and also lotsa business reasons.

>> If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance at

> another DC?

> He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal car.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

checkmysignat..

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by checkmysignat.. » Sun, 01 Sep 2002 02:42:03

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:15:11 -0400, "ymenard"



>> I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump
>> Villeneuve?

>Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions.  Anyway, Williams was
>really not a good team this year, they were rebuilding.  Craig Pollock
>started BAR, and since it was his ex-agent and best friend, he went to BAR.
>There was some politics here and also lotsa business reasons.

How was Jordon, when MShumacher won his first DC with them?  Were they
a really good team back then?  The 2002 EJ12 seems to perform a lot
better than BAR's, I wonder if Villeneuve could have a good year in
this car.  

Can you be more specific?  I'd like to know more about this.

--
karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

Ian

Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

by Ian » Sun, 01 Sep 2002 02:55:58

Jordan have never won a DC with anyone. In fact they didn't even win a race
until Spa 1998 (Damon Hill 1st Ralf Schumacher 2nd).
M. Schumacher won his first (and 2nd) DC with Benneton.

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>


> How was Jordon, when MShumacher won his first DC with them?  Were they
> a really good team back then?  The 2002 EJ12 seems to perform a lot
> better than BAR's, I wonder if Villeneuve could have a good year in
> this car.

> >>  If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance at
> >another DC?

> >He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal
car.

> Can you be more specific?  I'd like to know more about this.

> --
> karkrazy AT softhome DOT net


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