rec.autos.simulators

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

Haqsa

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Haqsa » Sun, 16 May 2004 08:54:35

900 degrees is 2.5 turns lock-to-lock.  That's not unusual for a road car.
In fact, just flipping at random through the latest Road & Track, I see the
VW R32 is 2.5, the Carrera GT is 2.6, and in their sedan comparo all the
cars are between 2.8 and 3.4.  So 900 degrees really should still feel quite
sporty in comparison to any real car.


Steve Smit

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Steve Smit » Sun, 16 May 2004 10:46:15

My friend Michael Hausknecht, who used to be a regular around here and in
the VROC leagues, has raced both RW bikes and RW single-seaters, and he said
the biggest difference he noticed between the real and simulated worlds was,
"Tiny hand movements."  When asked what he meant, he said sim racers were
used to generating huge amounts of yaw by flicking the wheel just a few
degrees (or, in the case of the Early Aliens, even tinier joystick
movements), whereas you're always crossing arms in Barber Dodge and even
shuffling the wheel thru yer hands in street cars on road courses.

Personally, I believe small wheel movements feel both natural and
appropriate for sims and that the 900-degree wheel won't gain much traction.
(The prob is that there are few decent wheels for console racing, altho the
PS--and maybe the PS3--will accept most functions of USB wheels.  Maybe MS
will resurrect an Xbox version of their Sidewinder wheel, which was pretty
decent except for the dinky pedals.  If they're all THAT interested in
cross-platform interoperability, maybe THEY would be willing to attach USB
devices to the Xbox 2.)


> 900 degrees is 2.5 turns lock-to-lock.  That's not unusual for a road car.
> In fact, just flipping at random through the latest Road & Track, I see
the
> VW R32 is 2.5, the Carrera GT is 2.6, and in their sedan comparo all the
> cars are between 2.8 and 3.4.  So 900 degrees really should still feel
quite
> sporty in comparison to any real car.



> > Heck, my road car doesn't go round 900 degrees - what are we simulating
> here
> > the West's transporter?

Chad Spark

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Chad Spark » Sun, 16 May 2004 15:34:19

Even more...

"Things change dramatically, however, when you factor in the intensive Xbox
Live support Microsoft has planned here. Let's say, for example, that you
start a single-player career. In Forza you start out by choosing a region
(the U.S., Europe, or Japan) to set up home base in. Your selection affects
the cars you'll have access to, since not every model is readily available
in every part of the world. What if you want a ride that you can't get,
then? One answer: go on Live, look for someone with that car available for
sale or trade, and work out a deal. Easy."

http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1590319,00.asp

Tony Rickar

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Tony Rickar » Sun, 16 May 2004 19:08:19


> > Heck, my road car doesn't go round 900 degrees - what are we simulating
> > here the West's transporter?
> 900 degrees is 2.5 turns lock-to-lock.  That's not unusual for a road car.
> In fact, just flipping at random through the latest Road & Track, I see
> the VW R32 is 2.5, the Carrera GT is 2.6, and in their sedan comparo all
> the cars are between 2.8 and 3.4.  So 900 degrees really should still feel
> quite sporty in comparison to any real car.

I guess i am just used to my Alfa 156 which has 2.1 turns lock to lock
whilst the more sporting variant GTA is only 1.75.

I was demonstrating to my daughter who is learning to drive in cars with
over 3 turns whatever and steering "correctly" by pushing and pulling how in
the Alfa except for parking I can pretty much keep my hands in the same
place on the wheel through the turns, even mini roundabouts.

The only times I can recall drivers piling lock on in race track conditions
is when they have gone off on the grass and got really sideways. Similiarly
in rally sims.

It sounds a clever device though and presumably will be adjustable to use a
value in between a standard wheel and its full 900 degrees?

Cheers
Tony

Haqsa

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Haqsa » Sun, 16 May 2004 23:30:51

Fair enough, and of course if I'm not mistaken single seaters are typically
only one turn lock to lock.  The 900 degree wheel is a perfectly good
simulation of a typical street legal car, but not necessarily a good
simulation of a purpose built sports or race car.  That's why I'm not really
that interested in the wheel myself, most of my PC sims are racing sims, not
production car sims.  But I think that for the purpose for which it was
made - for GT4, which models a lot of low performance production cars in
addition to the more sporty ones - it is a great idea.


Tony Rickar

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Tony Rickar » Sun, 16 May 2004 23:38:29


> Fair enough, and of course if I'm not mistaken single seaters are
> typically only one turn lock to lock.  The 900 degree wheel is a
> perfectly good simulation of a typical street legal car, but not
> necessarily a good simulation of a purpose built sports or race car.
> That's why I'm not really that interested in the wheel myself, most
> of my PC sims are racing sims, not production car sims.  But I think
> that for the purpose for which it was made - for GT4, which models a
> lot of low performance production cars in addition to the more sporty
> ones - it is a great idea.

I agree it is a good idea, just 900 degrees seems a lot, but I take your
point on the cars GT4 will simulate.

It would have been good for the guy I let have a go on my system some while
ago, not used to the limited travel of a sim wheel who managed to force it
past the stops on about three occasions. I never offered it again!

Cheers
Tony

Mitch_

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Mitch_ » Mon, 17 May 2004 03:27:33

I bought a Momo Racing for just such occasions :)


Internet Use

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Internet Use » Mon, 17 May 2004 06:23:37


> Even more...

> "Things change dramatically, however, when you factor in the intensive Xbox
> Live support Microsoft has planned here. Let's say, for example, that you
> start a single-player career. In Forza you start out by choosing a region
> (the U.S., Europe, or Japan) to set up home base in. Your selection affects
> the cars you'll have access to, since not every model is readily available
> in every part of the world. What if you want a ride that you can't get,
> then? One answer: go on Live, look for someone with that car available for
> sale or trade, and work out a deal. Easy."

> http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1590319,00.asp

Now that's a feature that I do NOT care for at all.  The appeal of GT is
that I can drive the cars that aren't available in the US.
Steve Smit

More on Microsofts Forza Motorsport

by Steve Smit » Mon, 17 May 2004 21:49:32

Name another Xbox wheel in the same league (quality-wise) as the Momo for
the PC.


> Fair enough, and of course if I'm not mistaken single seaters are
typically
> only one turn lock to lock.  The 900 degree wheel is a perfectly good
> simulation of a typical street legal car, but not necessarily a good
> simulation of a purpose built sports or race car.  That's why I'm not
really
> that interested in the wheel myself, most of my PC sims are racing sims,
not
> production car sims.  But I think that for the purpose for which it was
> made - for GT4, which models a lot of low performance production cars in
> addition to the more sporty ones - it is a great idea.



> > I guess i am just used to my Alfa 156 which has 2.1 turns lock to lock
> > whilst the more sporting variant GTA is only 1.75.

> > I was demonstrating to my daughter who is learning to drive in cars with
> > over 3 turns whatever and steering "correctly" by pushing and pulling
how
> in
> > the Alfa except for parking I can pretty much keep my hands in the same
> > place on the wheel through the turns, even mini roundabouts.

> > The only times I can recall drivers piling lock on in race track
> conditions
> > is when they have gone off on the grass and got really sideways.
> Similiarly
> > in rally sims.

> > It sounds a clever device though and presumably will be adjustable to
use
> a
> > value in between a standard wheel and its full 900 degrees?

> > Cheers
> > Tony


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