rec.autos.simulators

Just a quick note of Thanks to the guys of Papy, Ed, Adam, John, whoever
is at the other end of hawaii_help & all the regulars of this new group;
David Sparks, Dave Martin, Eric Busch, Michael Carver, etc.  You guys
consistantly help all of us out while overlooking the ignorance &
arrogance of some of our comments.  

BTW:  TEN says they have thier new regional zone in place in California
with ping times of 80-130ms & "It Rocks!"  Hope they put one in ***ia
soon.

THANKS and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

Bob_Stanley
Chicken Farm Racing
NASCAR, The Ultimate Contact Sport

Since my name isn't in the above.

I just would like the patch that fixes your x-mas rush job? Not asking for a
major rewrite.

When you do then I'll personally thank you.

We don't deserve what you really did now do we??

Sorry to be sour. But something tells me the patch is a long ways away. And
Sierra's front page football already has it's first patch out. Grass is always
greener on the otherside, darn it.

What hurts my stance is that most people play single player were many dumb
bugs aren't as evident. See I go multiplayer and the games is just*** on
by a thread. I wish everybody was in my shoes, you would be praising nobody.
And I don't feel I'm wrong for using a feature that is supposed to work.

But nobody really cares. Another game where Multiplayer options are very lame.
I'll give Papy the benifit as their nowhere near the only company that does
this. I should just be happy multiplayer exists period. :) <-- There ya go.

And if your in a threatining mood again about usenet. Fine don't fix nothing.
Fall behind. Go out of business, it's your call. There's somebody out there
right now working on a N2 killer. We need you as little or as much as you need
us.

Q.B.M. (I'm sorry to be a realist, this is called constructive critisim)

This is the exact kind of attitude that I hate.  There is absolutely no
excuse for releasing a buggy game, although every company does it.
They have deadlines to meet, this time it was to get Nascar2 out in
time for the Christmas shopping rush.  I would much rather wait for a
game to be released if the bugs were going to be fixed.  

Ever notice that there very rarely are bugs in console games?  The
developers know they don't have the option of releasing a patch, so
they have to get it right the first time (or reburn the ROM chips or
master new CDs).  Sure computer software developers have more complex
systems with differing hardware configurations, but most of the bugs so
far in Nascar2 are games issues.  

The software industry really needs to take a look at what they are
doing: releasing unfinished software to meet deadlines knowing full
well that they can make whatever fixes are necessary at a later date.
This needs to stop, but unfortunately it never will.  It could be
worse, just look at EA.  Want a real patch for NHL96, try NHL97.
NHL97's buggy as hell, better wait for NHL98...

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative
Nascar Setups Page: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ebusch/

I agree. But I also think that as gamers, we put too much pressure on
these same companies to release the products before they're ready.
Including repeatedly twisting around statements from people who work
for these companies. I believe we saw that here before N2 was
released.

I can't comment on this one,  I don't play console games.

IMHO, you could also include Hardware manufacturers. For example, (and
this is not a flame in any way) Intergraph released the Reactor with a
few problems that were mentioned here. Wasn't there a problem with VGA
speed, and a new bios patch was sent out as soon as it was available?
Isn't a new driver much the same as a game patch?

For the record, I like Nascar 2, and enjoy it very much. I would like
a save option, but I could live without it. I found it too hard to get
back into a race in Nascar 1 even after a couple hours. The timing
isn't there, and it just doesn't feel realistic.  OTOH, the sound
problems I was experiencing in Nascar 1 with my Ensoniq Soundscape are
now gone in N2. That's a relief. Let's have a little faith in Papyrus
and give them enough time to work out the bugs and release the patch.
After all, the game has only been available for about 3 weeks. My
guess is they want to release one patch instead of 2 or 3 smaller
patches.

David Range

Most of an entertainment software company's annual revenue comes from the
Xmas rush. I'm sure that, to Sierra,  missing Xmas is a bigger sin than
shipping incomplete code.

BTW, I like getting my hands on the software early, as long as I don't have
to pay for the patches.

Cya,
Mike Radler

Myyke on Hawaii

: This is the exact kind of attitude that I hate.  There is absolutely no
: excuse for releasing a buggy game, although every company does it.
: They have deadlines to meet, this time it was to get Nascar2 out in
: time for the Christmas shopping rush.  I would much rather wait for a
: game to be released if the bugs were going to be fixed.  
:
<snip>
:
: The software industry really needs to take a look at what they are
: doing: releasing unfinished software to meet deadlines knowing full
: well that they can make whatever fixes are necessary at a later date.
: This needs to stop, but unfortunately it never will.  
<snip>

I'll stand up and second the above!!!  It's even worse now that software
companies know that they can easily post fixes on the internet.  The
"easy way out".  I can understand a few bugs sneaking in, but give me a
break.  The ones related to NASACR2 are BLATANT.  I'm sure that the beta
testers reported them.  The other odd thing about some of the bugs with
N2, is that they are deja vu from NASCAR1/ICR1/ICR2.  Maybe they are
doing something right, they are being consistant?!

Well at least they seem to have cured the HOG!!!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

<snip>
:
: What hurts my stance is that most people play single player were many dumb
: bugs aren't as evident. See I go multiplayer and the games is just*** on
: by a thread. I wish everybody was in my shoes, you would be praising nobody.
: And I don't feel I'm wrong for using a feature that is supposed to work.
:
: But nobody really cares. Another game where Multiplayer options are very lame.
: I'll give Papy the benifit as their nowhere near the only company that does
: this. I should just be happy multiplayer exists period. :) <-- There ya go.
:
<snip>

I bet you will be seeing some improvements in N2 regarding multi-player
issues.  Why do you think Sierra was offering the game in "pre-order"
for $29.95?  It wasn't to do us loyal followers a favor!  It's because
the real money will come when NRO comes on line.  Well in order for NRO
to work, multi-player has to work.  Until these bugs are worked out, I
doubt that NRO will fly [sic].  There has been way too much money
invested by Papyrus/Sierra/NASCAR to not have NRO work.  If they want
to attract people who have never done this kinda thing before, they had
better have a pretty "Clean" product to offer.  

Let's give the Papyrus gang a Holiday break.  But, I expect speedier and
better results with NASCAR2 than the shit handed out to ICR2 owners.  If
only because of the added weight of NRO & NASCAR.

[Sorry about the foul language in the above paragraph, but I still have a
foul taste in my mouth from the lack of support we ICR2 owners received
from both Papy & Sierra.]

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I'll third that!!!

24 beta testers?? How can a company have as little as this to do testing on
such a large scale game?. 24 or so people made the decision for thousands
of others that this version was ready for market?? GIVE ME A BREAK!!.

vu from NASCAR1<<

That's all N-2 is, a CANDY COATED N-1 that now requires a Mouse driver and
CD-ROM driver to be loaded which in turn uses more memory- WHAT CRAP. Added
a few more graphics, WOW!! then a spotter that goes crazy, added a HALF
mirror so we could see the GREAT BLUE YONDER from the rear, GEES!! and all
this for the mear sum of $40.00, what a deal.

Again Papyrus **FORGOT** to package along with N-2 just as they did N-1, a
can of RRAAAIIIIDDDD. Not only do we have the old bugs, but in this version
they brought along some friends. The comment about Christmas was the KEY
word, that all mighty DOLLAR, oh-my goodness guys lets get this game on the
market now, hell with the bugs we will try to fix that later. WHAT?? no no
no, don't worry about our customers, they will buy no matter what we put
out there. Well PAPY you were right this time but I assure you it wont
happen again to this customer.

SG

On that subject, do you suppose that's why ICR2 owners got what they did?
That is to say we've been hearing that they've been working on the NRO in
some form or another for 2 years now, maybe they got a little to caught up
with the NASCAR side, after all they have been working closely with NASCAR
for it and NASACR is sort of in competition with Indycar (oh wait I forgot, I can't
call it that anymore, thanks again Tony). Anyway this is just a theory and while
I prefer the NASCAR thing to indycars I sincerely hope those of you who just
got the Indycar games like I just got the NASCAR games get a crack at this
multiplayer thing, unparralleled fun this side of a racecar.

Brian Kinkaid

bnk29 on Hawaii

: I bet you will be seeing some improvements in N2 regarding multi-player
: issues.  Why do you think Sierra was offering the game in "pre-order"
: for $29.95?  It wasn't to do us loyal followers a favor!  It's because
: the real money will come when NRO comes on line.  Well in order for NRO
: to work, multi-player has to work.  Until these bugs are worked out, I
: doubt that NRO will fly [sic].  There has been way too much money
: invested by Papyrus/Sierra/NASCAR to not have NRO work.  If they want
: to attract people who have never done this kinda thing before, they had
: better have a pretty "Clean" product to offer.  

: Let's give the Papyrus gang a Holiday break.  But, I expect speedier and
: better results with NASCAR2 than the shit handed out to ICR2 owners.  If
: only because of the added weight of NRO & NASCAR.

: [Sorry about the foul language in the above paragraph, but I still have a
: foul taste in my mouth from the lack of support we ICR2 owners received
: from both Papy & Sierra.]

ICR2 was the last straw for me. Even though I MIGHT be able to run NCAR2
in VGA (I'm not that picky about SVGA) on my 486DX4-120, I don't want to
pay for buggy software. The only two products that Papyrus have released
(that I bought immideately) bug-free were Indy 500 and NCAR Track Pack.
ICR, ICR Indy, ICR Track Pack, NCAR, and ICR2 were all released with
obvious bugs.

Do I appriciate what Papyrus has done over the years? Yes, greatly. But I
am no longer a loyal, automatic customer. Any further releases, starting
with NCAR2, will be looked upon with great skeptisism. At this time I see
no reason for purchasing NCAR2.
    __o
  _-\<,_  Cosmo Potapoff

: On that subject, do you suppose that's why ICR2 owners got what they did?
: That is to say we've been hearing that they've been working on the NRO in
: some form or another for 2 years now, maybe they got a little to caught up
: with the NASCAR side, after all they have been working closely with NASCAR
: for it and NASACR is sort of in competition with Indycar (oh wait I forgot, I can't
: call it that anymore, thanks again Tony). Anyway this is just a theory and while
: I prefer the NASCAR thing to indycars I sincerely hope those of you who just
: got the Indycar games like I just got the NASCAR games get a crack at this
: multiplayer thing, unparralleled fun this side of a racecar.

I too hope that the Indy car (generic term ;) side of the coin gets a shot
at multiplayer.

Unfortunately, I really doubt it. Papyrus doesn't have time for anything
elce right now. Their ass is on the line with the multiplayer package, and
they know it. ICR2 was put way on the back burner, and with v1.02 was
finished - end of story. Now with NCAR Papyrus is not merely endorsed by a
motorsport sanctioning body, but aligned with a MAJOR trademark. Multiplay
must work BUG-FREE. NASCAR does not throw their name around casually; it
isn't merely auto racing, it's big business. Papy has their hands full, I
wouldn't expect to see any other releases in the next couple of years at
least. Computer race sim fans will have to get their fix from other
software companies for a while.
    __o
  _-\<,_  Cosmo Potapoff

[clip]
: now gone in N2. That's a relief. Let's have a little faith in Papyrus
: and give them enough time to work out the bugs and release the patch.
: After all, the game has only been available for about 3 weeks. My
: guess is they want to release one patch instead of 2 or 3 smaller
: patches.

I'd agree with you here, but I haven't seen an official statement from
Papyrus that a patch is being worked on, what it will fix, etc. I know
there's no way in hell they'd give out an expected release date, r.a.s
readers being the rabid dogs we are. ;) But until there's some reliable
word of a patch, i'm not holding my breath.

Seems Papyrus or Papyerria has gotten very quite..........like they
left town with all the money from us suckers that were stupid enough
to pay them money for a bug infested game called Nascar2.