rec.autos.simulators

I totally like the sim, but the online multiplayer features are lacking and
many Hawaii/NROS users will agree with me that we have done here a 4year
backward step.

The biggest issue here is cheaters.  The main problem is that there is no
checksum anti-cheat measures.  Anybody can alterate their .dat files without
being a suspect.  There is tools that are available that everybody can use.
Per example, at C***te, the cheater would add 1-2degrees of banking in
the turns.  When joining a multiplayer race as a client, the server never
checks the files since there is no anti-cheat measures, and the driver is
now doing very fast speeds, but not enough fast so that he can be labeled as
a cheater.  A cheater is not dumb, he won't put enough banking so he will do
200mph+laps at C***te. He will simply add the necessary banking to be
near the top3 or so, and be able to compete that way.

Like I said anybody can do this, there is tools like a banking editor
software that is very user-friendly out presently. Anybody can simply do
this to all the tracks.  Without any checksum available to the server, it is
simply impossible to have some serious form of racing.  On the NROS and
Hawaii, you couldn't cheat that way.  There was anti-cheat measures.  It's a
4year old backward step.  Please Papyrus give us in a future patch an
anti-cheat feature that the server could load on it's clients.

I expect hundreds of cheaters with N3 in around 2weeks.

There is also no way to chat.  A Centralized chat system is necessary.
Somebody will have to step up the plate and ask this.  How can we know the
password for the servers when we can't talk to any racer ? How can we know
who is the person actually logged as a client in your server ? Look at the
NROS, we need a centralized place to chat. It creates a community. Have no
chat DOESN'T.  Im not asking for 1 arena for the thousands of drivers.  No
create subdivisions in them.  Is that hard ? Im sure the won.net servers
could act for this.  But it's probably money wasted for them

Finally, a remote server system is necessary.  We need tools to eject
drivers out of the races.  We need tools to control from a remote server the
dedicated server we host.  There can't be any cohesive and intelligent
community without this.  It's a 4year backward step if we do not have this.
GPL has it, why can't N3 have it ? My predictions were true.  There is
thousands of cheaters, lamers, AOLers, kids, keyboard racers already.  We
need to make some sense out of this.

I could explain this for hours, but Im simply too mad now.  Everybody can
cheat. THINK about this. ANYBODY, ALL THE TIME.  I hope you listen to the
customers, and add those 3things in a Nascar 3 patch.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I wonder if anyone could possibly develop third party software to detect
cheaters?

--
Travis
Tin Monkey Motorsports
#15 Chevy Monte Carlo

: I expect hundreds of cheaters with N3 in around 2weeks.

You get to know who you race with, set up league races, and your problem
is solved.  Believe it or not, there is still some integrity out in the
anonymous world of the Internet.

Stephen

jeff

< THINK about this. ANYBODY, ALL THE TIME. >
I hope there will be the same Online-racing etiquette like in GPL.
Dirk

---------------------------------------------
http://www.simracing.de
http://members.tripod.de/dmu

Maybe.  But the biggest plus in my book was no longer having to pay a
pathetic company any money, since they never really fixed anything.

use.

This is something that COULD be implemented now.  When joining the host, the
client would create a checksum of the track/car files and send it to the
host who would compare against his checksum of the track/car files. They
don't match, the client can't connect.  I'm really surprised this wasn't
added in.

And yes, cheating is going to be a much more of a problem in N3 than in GPL
simply because there is a larger "community" of people and you are going to
get more people willing to cheat the system than not.  Also, with an easier
driving model, it doesn't discourage as many of folks as the GPL driving
model does.

Well, hopefully in "leagues" you will be able to weed out those individuals.
Its much like offline leagues for the most part were....they relied on your
sense of fair play [and thats not having anything to do with using***pit
or arcade view].

Server doesn't need to load it anywhere.  The client just needs to generate
checksums and send it to the server for validation.

I give it within 2 days. :)

Ever hear of the IRC?  Now go chat.  SpyBoy's chat feature runs on an IRC
server, big deal.  Find a decent server, create a channel(s) and promote the
hell out of it on RAS. :)

Not fimiliar with won.net, but most places like the zone, heat.net, etc have
chat rooms.  I'd assume that won.net does too.

Yes, the lack of a dedicated server option was really a boneheaded move.  It
almost seems like that different parts of Papyrus doesn't talk internally
between themselves.  If they did, they would have realized how well the GPL
dedicated servers have served the GPL community.

And there are just as many doomsayers, fantatics, NROS-lovers, etc out there
that are just as bad as the cheaters, lamers, AOers, etc.   And btw, nothing
wrong with AOLers or kids if you can coach them and teach them.  They may
get to love racing and end up forcing you to eat their dust fair and square.

Sure, the multiplayer might be a backward step when compared to NROS.  But
NROS was not free and this is, so I'd have to say that in general terms, the
multiplayer in N3 is way, way better.  You'd have to be a fool to think
otherwise.

As to cheating, people will cheat.  Others will not.  I'm one that will
never cheat, period.  So you just find those that won't, and let the others
have their fun-- everyone cheating to try to gain the advantage.

Alanb

I'll be waiting for a patch to come out before I'll waste time with it.
Besides my boat anchor probably would make the game suck even more :(

Something does need to be done about it.

Thad

<snipers here and there <g>>

Hey Franky, my take on this is to chill out. :) The way I see it, it
is still very much early days... and I dearly hope (and trust) that
much of what you ask for is on its way... If you think about it,
Hawaii was direct dial, but was only open to a select few who could
afford the cost of dialing in... When Sierra got Papy, I believe the
wheels were in motion for TEN... and that's what happened. The move
away from direct dial benefited everyone, especially myself and all
other Europeans who had dreamed about racing on Hawaii and were now
actually given a chance...

Now we have to look at in and say.. DOS has gone, N2 was probably one
of the last few products to not have been "windowfied" during initial
development... and also there was absolutely no call for TCP/IP
Internet gameplay. I believe TEN was a major technical achievement...
they had to engineer the game to work over the Net, when it wasn't
native to the OS or the data exchange protocol. As things have changed
both Papy/Sierra (and of course "Pogo") have realised pay-to-play is
not the way to go... Every game now has out the box TCP/IP support,
and for N3 to support anything less would be a disaster..... Fact is
we were spoilt with TEN, problems and all...

But it still remains.. find an ISP/device that will allow (personally)
a <250ms stable connection, and you can have a league race in Nx which
can have the same amount of warping as an IPX local network game...
Papy have put a lot of time and code into NROS, and Sierra *knows*
they can generate quite a bit of money if they set up a pay-to-play
service similar to TEN (dedicated servers, rankings and cheating
measures)... for those that want the ultimate sim-racing experience...

Only time will tell, and if Sierra fails to do this then it seems
there are fans out there with the time, money, knowledge (resources)
to hopefully make a good job of it......

It's *possible* to have near local network racing (with a bit more
give and take due to the inevitable latency, but we can deal with that
as a "fact of life" as drivers, just like the real guys have to deal
with mechanical problems), and with N3 being built with TCP/IP support
out the box, many of the problems in online racing may vanish or be
easier to pin-point.

They have proved what they can do, with TEN, and having free
multiplayer TCP/IP out the box is *only* the beginning.

(I hope ;-)

Jon.