rec.autos.simulators

Well, except for a couple big ones that kept most of Europe free.

Hopefully, the sad fact that we have inadvertently killed innocent civilians
will not be in vain and will stop thousands more from dying at Saddam's
hands, again. I find it hard to understand why those who are outraged at the
US for accidentally killing a child are not at all outraged by the fact that
Saddam has killed hundreds of them intentionally. I can only believe that
their outrage has nothing to do with the killing of a child, but is simply
directed at the US in general.

I don't really want to get involved in this stupid discussion, so that's all
I'm going to say.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).
Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 3/25/2003

Bingo! Well said.

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
__________________________

Dave

Here is just a few examples. This is in no way an exhaustive list.

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as
dictator.
1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala.
200,000 civilians killed.
1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.
1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets.
CIA gives them $3 billion.
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans
die.
1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill
Iranians.
1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama)
disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega.
3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates
500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

Open you ***in EYES,  your goverment is selling you down the river,  this
has nothing to do with Iraq.

Steve

By the way, this has nothing to do with Iraq, so I suppose you just wanted
to let everyone know how much you hate the US. It must really bother you
that in almost every war, skirmish or police action since WWI, Australia has
been participating right there beside the US.

Keep putting dictators into power then bomb there asses when you need to get
out of a recession.
The war machine is profitable,  don't  kid yourself it has to do with
people.

Here is just a few examples. This is in no way an exhaustive list.

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as
dictator.
1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala.
200,000 civilians killed.
1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.
1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets.
CIA gives them $3 billion.
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans
die.
1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill
Iranians.
1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama)
disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega.
3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates
500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

Open you ***in EYES,  your goverment is selling you down the river,  this
has nothing to do with Iraq.

   And we 'ppreciate the fact yer there.

as far as the many many child deaths in Iraq blamed on Bombing and
sanctions.  The goverment of Iraq has been given plenty of money in the
last 10 years to see to the needs of it's people via the oil for food
program.  However the goverment of Iraq has chosen to defy the purpose of
the Oil for FOOD program and use the funds to build hundreds of edifices of
Saddam, to build literally a half-hundred castles/palaces/estate/country
clubs...for ONE person.  Surely the Bombs and warfare did kill people and
even children...but the NEGLECT of the current regime for it's people
places much of the blame NOT on the US, or the Sanctions themselves but on
the Iraqi goverment's misuse of humanitarian aid for ego gratification and
military expenditures.

   Nobody will be blameless when this is all over.  The French, the Turks,
the German's the Russians, the Belges have all contributed to the overall
carnage by NOT enforcing the many UN resolutions they themselves voted for.
The US will, unfortunately kill many innocents.  But no country in modern
times has SPENT as much money on attempting to prevent civilian casulties.
  No country in the History of the world as put as money into programs that
, at least attempt, to minimize errant attacks as the USA has done for this
conflict.   It is the US and Britain and Coalition forces that are
endangering their own troops in an attempt to limit civilian casulties.  It
is NOT the US that rounds up women and children and makes them weapons for
a propaganda war.  It is not the US that has electric wires running to meat
hooks in Hospitals.  We are not perfect, we are not saints.  We kill and
*** just like every other race/religion/country.  But as long as ANTI US
or ANTI Bush or ANTI anything focus ONLY on one side of an issue or one
statistic, they do nothing to further improving the causes of those
attrocities.
   You all can dredge up statistics that show what butchers the US is/are,
I'm sure we could fill up pages of examples, but that is onesided and
overlooks two important points.  How many peoples lives would have been
lost if the US took no action and what would the world be like without such
actions.  The Soviets became a power by killing millions of their own
people.  If left unchecked, how many more millions would have been killed
in YOUR countries?  When the US pulled out of Viet Nam, how long before Pol
Pot next door in Cambodia began filling warehouses with millions of
skeletons of his own people?
When The US bombed IRAQ, killing those babies...how many men in Kuwait had
already been arested tortured and killed by Iraqis?  How many women were
repeatedly***d by Iraqi soliers?  How many Iraqi's themselves have been
tortured?  Killed?  Abused?  By their own goverment.  

  Somebody once said:
    War is Hell.
The alternative is often the same.

dave henrie        

[Source: April 2 London {Times};
April 1 British Television; EIR contacts]
THERE ARE MULTIPLE INDICATIONS OF MASSIVE STRAINS ERUPTING
BETWEEN BRITAIN AND THE U.S., at the way the American military is
handling the war against Iraq.

EIR's man in Glasgow, Alan Clayton, reports that British
Channels 4 and 5 last night were filled with accusations and
intimations against American military heavy-handedness, and the
alleged contrast between such behavior, and the more "human" way
the British military is behaving.

Whether or not this involves
some "special pleading" by the British side, the central polemic,
is that the Americans "are losing the hearts and minds of the population."

One figure interviewed, was Captain Bob Stewart,
who had commanded British troops in Bosnia, and who has been
critical of the Iraq war drive for months, saying that what the
U.S. is doing, is "not the way to win the hearts and minds of the
population."

Today's London {Times} headlines, "Strains of War Test the
Allies," writing, "Tensions between Britain and the U.S. over the
conduct of the war, were growing last night, as British
commanders voiced their dismay at American soldiers' heavy-handed tactics."

These "strains burst into the open," after the latest
incidents of U.S. military killing innocent Iraqi civilians.

British government sources speak to the {Times}, of "hairline
cracks in the relationship." The {Times} itemizes several other
sources of tension, noting that "Britain has also been dismayed,
by Donald Rumsfeld's threatening noises toward Iran and Syria."

A well-informed Russian source confirmed to EIR, that there
are now significant tensions between the American and British
military, over the conduct of the Iraq war.

--

Fester

Elevators smell different to midgets

That's real convincing there Slot.  If it's so blatant & so obvious, why
not dispute one by one & "enlighten" us?  Looks to be a very accurate
list, just not very complete.  We done many more things worldwide.
Which is the reason why we are so hated.  People could care less how
"free" we are, and the arguments that such "freedoms" are why we are so
hated has always been laughable for their stupidity.  These Iraquis
don't care how free you are, they're mad because you killed off 2/3 of
their family.  You know if given the chance, some will look to give
paybacks.  In their place, wouldn't you?

--

Fester

Elevators smell different to midgets

btw  I'm not anti american.  I'm anti-war.  If the people supporting the war
took the time to research and understand the political, religious and
socio-economic issues of region, they would be against this war as well.

terrorist of freedom fighter...both the same thing.  just depends on your
perspective.

I'm not trying to get into a hate/slanging match.  Just a bit of civilised
debate, respecting each others point of view.

Steve

I don't accept the WMD debate or even the "Liberating the people", or
"breaking resolutions" reasons at all, otherwise why hasn't anything
been done about N. Korea, or Palestine, who are by far bigger
offenders than Iraq. Yes Saddam is evil, but he is not the only one. I
don't think I have heard a believeable answer to these questions from
any politician any time it has been brought up.