That sounds like a description about how to take Masta, too...
I've tried the double-apex, bot I can't seem to find the right turn-in point...
Eldred
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>> >The big tthing at Watkins are the first 3 turns up the hill etc, ya wanna
>> >work on
>> >trying to take the last 2 flat out in 4th
>> Flat? Yeah, RIGHT. I'd be doing a pinball impersonation off the armco. I
>can
>> *sometimes* take the second almost flat, but I can't do it on the turn before
>> it.
>Unfortunately, that's probably where you are loosing most time, and not
>that much with braking I think. I am no hotlapper, but I can get into
>cosistent 1.06 and a rare 1.05.9x. The two places to gain time are the
>exits from the Loop and the 3rd turn, as they are both followed by
>relatively long straights. You will need to play with the differential
>settings to get good traction out of these. I have my Ferrari settings
>put at 60/60 with 1 clutch, but the downloaded settings probably nailed
>the issue better than mine.
>After accelerating out of turn 1 in 3rd I shift to 4th and aim for the
>apex in turn 2 much sooner thatn it appears as there is always more
>understeer for me here than expected, and I am flat out on a perfect lap
>when I reach it. The throttle flat out produces just enough oversteer
>with my setup (diff settings mostly affect this) that the car then
>starts sliding gracefully towards the inside of the turn 3, and with
>staying on full throttle I at this point gently reverse the turn. I have
>my 4th gear set up the way that I upshift only upon exiting the turn 3.
Not sure about needing to do this as a double apex either. I've
compared 2 similar laps on replay analyser. One that double-apexed and
one that just held the inside line very smoothly. The double apex was
quicker into the corner, but then lost distance to the inside line as it
started to drift wide, but was then able to regain that lost distance as
it got better acceleration out of the corner. However, by the end of
the back straight through 'the trap' leading towards big bend they were
both pretty much equal again.
The 2 times I was comparing were one of 1:04.20 and the other 1:04.18
by the way. <vbg>
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.
Eldred
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> I've tried the double-apex, bot I can't seem to find the right turn-in point...
-Gregor
> Not sure about needing to do this as a double apex either. I've
> compared 2 similar laps on replay analyser. One that double-apexed and
> one that just held the inside line very smoothly. The double apex was
> quicker into the corner, but then lost distance to the inside line as it
> started to drift wide, but was then able to regain that lost distance as
> it got better acceleration out of the corner. However, by the end of
> the back straight through 'the trap' leading towards big bend they were
> both pretty much equal again.
> The 2 times I was comparing were one of 1:04.20 and the other 1:04.18
> by the way. <vbg>
> --
> Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
> No person's opinions can be said to be
> more correct than another's, because each is
> the sole judge of his or her own experience.
-Gregor
>> Not sure about needing to do this as a double apex either. I've
>> compared 2 similar laps on replay analyser. One that double-apexed and
>> one that just held the inside line very smoothly. The double apex was
>> quicker into the corner, but then lost distance to the inside line as it
>> started to drift wide, but was then able to regain that lost distance as
>> it got better acceleration out of the corner. However, by the end of
>> the back straight through 'the trap' leading towards big bend they were
>> both pretty much equal again.
>> The 2 times I was comparing were one of 1:04.20 and the other 1:04.18
>> by the way. <vbg>
>> --
>> Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
>> No person's opinions can be said to be
>> more correct than another's, because each is
>> the sole judge of his or her own experience.
>I do not find this surprising as I do believe that both approaches are
>fast. What I do find is that with doing the double apex I can be far
>more consistently fast as it allows a lot more improvising with the line
>without losing any time. I guess I should also mention that I am not
>that interested in hotlapping (yeah, I'm slow :) ) and I am mostly
>looking for ways to make me consistently fast.
>-Gregor
No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.
>> I've tried the double-apex, bot I can't seem to find the right turn-in
>point...
>What I usually do is I do not brake down the left side of the track but
>start moving slightly right across the track even before the track drops
>off (call it trail braking, but it most probably isn't). In this case
>there is practically no turn in needed since while you are then braking
>downhill there is enough oversteer to almost automatically start the
>corner. This will find you reaching the apex quite soon, and will give
>you enough room on the outside for mistakes. This is also the main
>reason why I do the double apex thingy, mainly because it leaves much
>more margin for error while being faster at the same time for me.
Eldred
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> I've compared with Spygirl and Replay Analyzer. Both show that I brake
much
> earlier(Is that what you mean?).
Reason #1: You're just not braking hard enough.
Reason #2: You have to slow down too much on your approach to the corner,
because your car control isn't precise enough on your entry into the corner.
Reason #3: A little of both #1 and #2.
Graph your speed against Graeme's, and you can compare the slope of your
graph against his in the braking zones. If his is steeper, then you're not
braking hard enough... which I would bet is simply a problem with your
controller (assuming you're using his setup) rather than a lack of skill or
talent.
In listening to the tire squeal, I don't have
I think Replay Analyzer does pretty much the same thing as GPL Dump, so no
need to have both.
A
A double-apex works well, or at least a shallower entry helps keep the speed
up. Not sure if you need to sacrifice the apex, though. The exit takes power
very well going uphill into the back straight, much more and much sooner
than it looks on the first thousand or so laps. (Ummm, we're talking about
WG, right? The 1:04 and endless double-apex debate seems to indicate
that...)
Michael.
> >> I've tried the double-apex, bot I can't seem to find the right turn-in
> >point...
> >What I usually do is I do not brake down the left side of the track but
> >start moving slightly right across the track even before the track drops
> >off (call it trail braking, but it most probably isn't). In this case
> >there is practically no turn in needed since while you are then braking
> >downhill there is enough oversteer to almost automatically start the
> >corner. This will find you reaching the apex quite soon, and will give
> >you enough room on the outside for mistakes. This is also the main
> >reason why I do the double apex thingy, mainly because it leaves much
> >more margin for error while being faster at the same time for me.
> That approach would GUARANTEE me finding the hay bales on the side...
> >> I've tried the double-apex, bot I can't seem to find the right turn-in
> >point...
> >What I usually do is I do not brake down the left side of the track but
> >start moving slightly right across the track even before the track drops
> >off (call it trail braking, but it most probably isn't). In this case
> >there is practically no turn in needed since while you are then braking
> >downhill there is enough oversteer to almost automatically start the
> >corner. This will find you reaching the apex quite soon, and will give
> >you enough room on the outside for mistakes. This is also the main
> >reason why I do the double apex thingy, mainly because it leaves much
> >more margin for error while being faster at the same time for me.
> That approach would GUARANTEE me finding the hay bales on the side...
> Eldred
I'm a GPL spaz, but in this case I must admit it works. This is also my
approach to the corner, and I am using a non-ideal handheld controller (mini
steering wheel with trigger throttle/brake). If I can hang onto it with
this, you can certainly do it with a wheel and pedals. Give it a go.
Now, if I can pick up some speed in the Esses...
Stephen
>A double-apex works well, or at least a shallower entry helps keep the speed
>up. Not sure if you need to sacrifice the apex, though. The exit takes power
>very well going uphill into the back straight, much more and much sooner
>than it looks on the first thousand or so laps. (Ummm, we're talking about
>WG, right? The 1:04 and endless double-apex debate seems to indicate
>that...)
>Michael.
Eldred
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>Not quite. What I'm getting at is that there are different possible reasons
>as to why you have to brake so early to make the corner.
>Reason #1: You're just not braking hard enough.
>Reason #2: You have to slow down too much on your approach to the corner,
>because your car control isn't precise enough on your entry into the corner.
>Reason #3: A little of both #1 and #2.
>Graph your speed against Graeme's, and you can compare the slope of your
>graph against his in the braking zones. If his is steeper, then you're not
>braking hard enough... which I would bet is simply a problem with your
>controller (assuming you're using his setup) rather than a lack of skill or
>talent.
Eldred
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Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
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Hmm that's too bad. There's no easy answer for you then. But at least you
have narrowed it down a bit.
Makes me wonder what Greger Huttu works on when he wants to go faster. :)
A
Just thought I had to say something :)
Rick Prydden
> >> I've compared with Spygirl and Replay Analyzer. Both show that I brake
> >much
> >> earlier(Is that what you mean?).
> >Not quite. What I'm getting at is that there are different possible
reasons
> >as to why you have to brake so early to make the corner.
> >Reason #1: You're just not braking hard enough.
> >Reason #2: You have to slow down too much on your approach to the corner,
> >because your car control isn't precise enough on your entry into the
corner.
> >Reason #3: A little of both #1 and #2.
> >Graph your speed against Graeme's, and you can compare the slope of your
> >graph against his in the braking zones. If his is steeper, then you're
not
> >braking hard enough... which I would bet is simply a problem with your
> >controller (assuming you're using his setup) rather than a lack of skill
or
> >talent.
> Actually, the braking lines are parallel. Mine just starts sooner. So,
I'm
> braking just as hard, but I have to start sooner, and stay on the brakes
later.
> My speed is lower in the turns.
> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPL hcp. +69.95
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>Just thought I had to say something :)
>Rick Prydden
Eldred
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