rec.autos.simulators

by **Eldre** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I'm trying to equal a lap at Watkins Glen by Graeme Nash. I downloaded the
lap(1:04.60), and the setup. I've never been able to even get CLOSE. I ran 48
laps today. The best I could do was 1:07.44, but I could probably run 1:08's
and 1:09's all day. He goes deeper into every single braking zone. If I try
it, I'm off the track. I simply CANNOT control my car the same way, and I'm
even using left-foot braking(so *there*, Andre...<g). It's never gonna happen
- 3 SECONDS?!? I may as well give up...AUGH!

Eldred
p.s. Graeme, help me out here - how do you do it?
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **SKur** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

when u say off the track ELdred, do u mean spin out or slide straight thru?

If u spin out try increasin brake bias, to 55+, if u keep lockin up fronts, move it
back a tiny bit
What do u have steering ratio at? linearity slider?

The big tthing at Watkins are the first 3 turns up the hill etc, ya wanna work on
trying to take the last 2 flat out in 4th

Martyn_D

> I'm trying to equal a lap at Watkins Glen by Graeme Nash. I downloaded the
> lap(1:04.60), and the setup. I've never been able to even get CLOSE. I ran 48
> laps today. The best I could do was 1:07.44, but I could probably run 1:08's
> and 1:09's all day. He goes deeper into every single braking zone. If I try
> it, I'm off the track. I simply CANNOT control my car the same way, and I'm
> even using left-foot braking(so *there*, Andre...<g). It's never gonna happen
> - 3 SECONDS?!? I may as well give up...AUGH!

> Eldred
> p.s. Graeme, help me out here - how do you do it?
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPL hcp. +70.45

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Aubre** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Eldred, have you ever tried GPL dump? I think you can still download it
from www.the-fastlane.com. It lets you compare your laps with Graeme's in a
graphical format. For one, you can graph your speed as a function of
distance, and compare it with Graeme's. So you can find out, for instance,
if you are either not braking hard enough, or just not controlling the car
well enough entering the corner. It's got lots of other telemetry as well.

If you're not braking hard enough, I'd bet there's something seriously wrong
with your brake pedal. You might need to stiffen it up or something. I say
this because I've found that it's not difficult at all to brake just as hard
as the WR holders. If it's just poor car control, well, then it gets
unspeakably more complicated, but at least you'll know what to work on. ;)

A

by **Troy Rosenber** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Hey Eldred,

I was in a bind.. League race, Wat glen, me in a Brab, and I was stuck at
1:06:02 as a fastest lap. I WANTED A 1:05:ANYTHING !!!!!

I did heaps of laps trying different setups......

I looked at heaps of replays of 1:05 laps and I noticed that everyone one of
them were braking in 1/2 the distance I was using...ie: at the loop Greger
was going over the hump at 112mph and was braking in 1/2 the distance I
needed to do the same speed.

I said HA he has the sticky patch, ;) I studied what I was doing AND
surprise surprise I was not coming off the accelerator fully when I was
braking, it was how I was sitting in the hyper (Very upright) and was
unable, unless I took my foot right away from the accelerator in coming off
the power.

I went out and did some laps removing my foot from the accelerator and did a
1:05:85 in the second lap... I now sit lower in the hyper and find i can
lift off easyer now

Just trying to help...

Troy

by **Simon Brow** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Don't you just hate Watkins Glen after you've done about 50 laps there.

by **Andre Warrin** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Eldred, can you mail me the replay from you and the replay from
Graeme? That way I can compare the two and perhaps see where you can
improve.
On of the tracks where I'm really slow compared to others is Zandy.
PB was 1:27.something. I watched a couple of replays from others,
compared them with GPLDump, and within a couple of laps I allready
drove my first 1:25. Still, there is one corner (after the hairpin,
you have a corner to the left, the corner I mean is the following
corner to the right) where I lose MUCH time.
GPLDump shows me that I let go of the throttle in that corner, the
speed line in GPLDump is dropping. But Leonardo Grandis is giving gas
in that corner! I still don't see how his car stays on track while
giving gas in that corner, but that's the fun of GPL. You think you're
entering a corner at maximum speed, yet others have found a way to
take that corner lots faster.
Please mail me the replays Eldred, or put them on the binaries group
so even more people can help you.
We'll get you there :) A 1:04 may be a little bit too much, but a low
1:06 / high 1:05 is really not that much of a problem.
Good to hear you started using your left foot, let the trailbraking
begin!

Andre

by **David Butte** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

<snip>

Or, indeed, GPL Replay Analyser, which does much the same thing, but I
find easier to use.

--
David. (GPLRank handicap: -1.17)
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

by **Graeme Nas** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Considerably more luck than judgement :-)

It's hard to say *how* it's done, I just brake and steer where and when
I feel comfortable. That lap (and setup) was with GPL 1.0 which might
have something to do it, I'll mail you a more up-to-date lap tonight
(although my times have improved a little since then, I'm down to
1m04.40 with the red car now).

Like the other guy said it's probably best to check the lap with a
program like GPLDump to see if you're using full braking and so on.

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

by **Eldre** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Ok, will do.

If that's the corner I'm thinking of(the first right-hander after the hill), I
apply gas there also. Granted, it's not FLOORED, but I'm not coasting. But,
I'm still only at 1:29.73...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>I said HA he has the sticky patch, ;) I studied what I was doing AND
>surprise surprise I was not coming off the accelerator fully when I was
>braking, it was how I was sitting in the hyper (Very upright) and was
>unable, unless I took my foot right away from the accelerator in coming off
>the power.

I don't think that's it. Prior to me getting F1 2K about a week ago, I was
right-foot braking. So, I *know* my foot wasn't on the accelerator...<g>.
With the new game, I decided to try left-foot braking(since I didn't have to
*unlearn* anything), and can at least get around the track. When I came back
to GPL, I stayed with it.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>when u say off the track ELdred, do u mean spin out or slide straight thru?

Depends on how long it takes to realize I'm gonna crash...<g> I'd say I push
off the track more often...

Ratio usually at 18:1, with linearity about 90& left(as of last night). Most
people seem to have their steering ration at 15:1. That's simply TOO twitchy
for me.

Flat? Yeah, RIGHT. I'd be doing a pinball impersonation off the armco. I can
*sometimes* take the second almost flat, but I can't do it on the turn before
it.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>Eldred, have you ever tried GPL dump? I think you can still download it
>from www.the-fastlane.com. It lets you compare your laps with Graeme's in a
>graphical format. For one, you can graph your speed as a function of
>distance, and compare it with Graeme's. So you can find out, for instance,
>if you are either not braking hard enough, or just not controlling the car
>well enough entering the corner. It's got lots of other telemetry as well.

>If you're not braking hard enough, I'd bet there's something seriously wrong
>with your brake pedal. You might need to stiffen it up or something. I say
>this because I've found that it's not difficult at all to brake just as hard
>as the WR holders. If it's just poor car control, well, then it gets
>unspeakably more complicated, but at least you'll know what to work on. ;)

I've compared with Spygirl and Replay Analyzer. Both show that I brake much
earlier(Is that what you mean?). In listening to the tire squeal, I don't have
a problem threshold braking. If I applied any more braking, I'd just lock up,
right? I will look for GPL Dump, though. It's possible I'm just not
understanding braking well enough.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Ken MacKa** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Could you send me those replays as well? I'm not an expert but I managed to get into
the 1:06.xx range after comparing my laps to G.Huttu's in GPL Relay Analyzer. And
its more likely you could repeat what I do rather than what those 3 legged guys out
there manage. :)

Ken MacKay
Halifax, Canada
GPL Handicap +88.79
PS: And who knows, maybe you could show me a few things.

> >I'm trying to equal a lap at Watkins Glen by Graeme Nash. I downloaded the
> >lap(1:04.60), and the setup. I've never been able to even get CLOSE. I ran 48
> >laps today. The best I could do was 1:07.44, but I could probably run 1:08's
> >and 1:09's all day. He goes deeper into every single braking zone. If I try
> >it, I'm off the track. I simply CANNOT control my car the same way, and I'm
> >even using left-foot braking(so *there*, Andre...<g). It's never gonna happen
> >- 3 SECONDS?!? I may as well give up...AUGH!

> Eldred, can you mail me the replay from you and the replay from
> Graeme? That way I can compare the two and perhaps see where you can
> improve.
> On of the tracks where I'm really slow compared to others is Zandy.
> PB was 1:27.something. I watched a couple of replays from others,
> compared them with GPLDump, and within a couple of laps I allready
> drove my first 1:25. Still, there is one corner (after the hairpin,
> you have a corner to the left, the corner I mean is the following
> corner to the right) where I lose MUCH time.
> GPLDump shows me that I let go of the throttle in that corner, the
> speed line in GPLDump is dropping. But Leonardo Grandis is giving gas
> in that corner! I still don't see how his car stays on track while
> giving gas in that corner, but that's the fun of GPL. You think you're
> entering a corner at maximum speed, yet others have found a way to
> take that corner lots faster.
> Please mail me the replays Eldred, or put them on the binaries group
> so even more people can help you.
> We'll get you there :) A 1:04 may be a little bit too much, but a low
> 1:06 / high 1:05 is really not that much of a problem.
> Good to hear you started using your left foot, let the trailbraking
> begin!

> Andre

> >Eldred
> >p.s. Graeme, help me out here - how do you do it?
> >--
> >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> >GPL hcp. +70.45

> >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
> >with experience...
> >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Gregor Vebl** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> >The big tthing at Watkins are the first 3 turns up the hill etc, ya wanna
> >work on
> >trying to take the last 2 flat out in 4th

> Flat? Yeah, RIGHT. I'd be doing a pinball impersonation off the armco. I can
> *sometimes* take the second almost flat, but I can't do it on the turn before
> it.

Unfortunately, that's probably where you are loosing most time, and not
that much with braking I think. I am no hotlapper, but I can get into
cosistent 1.06 and a rare 1.05.9x. The two places to gain time are the
exits from the Loop and the 3rd turn, as they are both followed by
relatively long straights. You will need to play with the differential
settings to get good traction out of these. I have my Ferrari settings
put at 60/60 with 1 clutch, but the downloaded settings probably nailed
the issue better than mine.

After accelerating out of turn 1 in 3rd I shift to 4th and aim for the
apex in turn 2 much sooner thatn it appears as there is always more
understeer for me here than expected, and I am flat out on a perfect lap
when I reach it. The throttle flat out produces just enough oversteer
with my setup (diff settings mostly affect this) that the car then
starts sliding gracefully towards the inside of the turn 3, and with
staying on full throttle I at this point gently reverse the turn. I have
my 4th gear set up the way that I upshift only upon exiting the turn 3.

I take the Loop as a double apex corner (I think someone far better
than me already mentioned the possibility), so I can brake late and
slightly turn across the track upon entry thus reaching the apex and
scrubbing some more speed when sliding (okay, I should be trailbraking
here but I am not that good :) ), then accelerate towards the apex again
and the slide outwards with full throttle all the way from the apex
drifting towards the outside (on a perfect lap that is). If all works
out, I upshift jut before the armco on the left is fully passed.

-Gregor

by **Andre Warring** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Yep, I found out how to do it correct (more or less :)
I couldn't give gas during that corner, simply because my corner
entrance was not correct. And that was due to the corner before that
one, I took that one wrong. Now I back off a little bit more in the
first corner, I can take the right hander quite a little bit faster,
and all in all I gain 2/10th... YIPPIE!! :)

Andre

rec.autos.simulators

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...

I can't do it...