rec.autos.simulators

by **=Gunslinge** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Dag Dab It!

I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
$50.

Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
to no avail.
Is it me or what?
At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
That sucks.
I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
trying to keep the car straight...
The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
wheel.
I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
Am I crazy?

--
-Gunslinger-

by **Joachim Bl** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hi!

Hmm, I don't know what the T2 is sold as here in Germany, but I have a F1
(Nascar Pro in the US, I suppose) and I'm pretty satisfied with it. The
pedals stay on the ground, are big enough for my size 10 feet and the
wheel can be turned about 270 from side to side. That's not too much. My
laptimes at the Glen for instance have improved to low 1:06 and there is
still room left. With a joy I never almost came near the 1:10's.
But, that's everyone's own choice. Use the device you can drive best with.
Just to give an example: One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger,
also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's
really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen).
So, keep calm, you're not crazy ;-))

Cya
Crash

=Gunslinger= schrieb:

> Dag Dab It!

> I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
> $50.

> Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
> Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
> to no avail.
> Is it me or what?
> At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
> That sucks.
> I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
> And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
> and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
> pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
> rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
> As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
> pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
> do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
> change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
> the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
> I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
> trying to keep the car straight...
> The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
> the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
> make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
> moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

> Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
> wheel.
> I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
> Am I crazy?

> --
> -Gunslinger-

erika.und.joachim.blum.vcf
< 1K Download

by **CombatWomba** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

That's what i thought too, when i went from a joystick to the T2 several
years ago in NFS 1. It's gonna take a lot longer than 3 days to get used to
the wheel, but once you do, it will most likely be faster. Eventually you
will learn the sweet spot in certain games where you are on the edge of
grip, something that is difficult to do with a joystick. I went through the
same situation, and believe me, keep at the wheel.

As for the peddles moving around and being too close together, i can agree
with you there. You can remedy the sliding. I got some of this ***y
sheet stuff (real specific i know, think it's used in cabinets so you don't
scratch up the good dishes) and simply put the peddles on top of that.
Dag Dab It!

I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
$50.

Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
to no avail.
Is it me or what?
At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
That sucks.
I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
trying to keep the car straight...
The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
wheel.
I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
Am I crazy?

--
-Gunslinger-

by **=Gunslinge** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger,
>also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's
>really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen).

WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have
instant gas and instant brake, no in between.
I don't see how it is possible.

--
-Gunslinger-

by **Remco Moe** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have
>instant gas and instant brake, no in between.
>I don't see how it is possible.

You can use the forward/backward movement of the stick for
accelerator/brake. Well, some people can, I can't.

Remco

by **schwab** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

'Slinger... you use pushing forward on the stick as accelerate, pulling
back as brake and side-to-side for the obvious. Buttons do the
shifting... I haven't lapped the Glen in a while, but i've gone 1:04.3
in the Lotus and 1:04.9 in the Brabham with a dilapitated FlightStick in
the above configuration....

--dave

> >One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger,
> >also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's
> >really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen).

> WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have
> instant gas and instant brake, no in between.
> I don't see how it is possible.

> --
> -Gunslinger-

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

by **schwab** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

'Slinger... you use pushing forward on the stick as accelerate, pulling
back as brake and side-to-side for the obvious. Buttons do the
shifting... I haven't lapped the Glen in a while, but i've gone 1:04.3
in the Lotus and 1:04.9 in the Brabham with a dilapitated FlightStick in
the above configuration....

--dave

> >One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger,
> >also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's
> >really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen).

> WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have
> instant gas and instant brake, no in between.
> I don't see how it is possible.

> --
> -Gunslinger-

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

by **Mark Seer** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

The only way to do it for analogue control. Only problem is braking and
turning at the same time. It is extremely difficult to pull back to brake
whilst holding a constant arc with the steering. After a while it becomes
second nature but it takes practice.

Mark

by **^Frett** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98.
Since
93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake"
all
the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on
the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem}
So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or
Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there
& I am sorry if I missed you!
Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick
only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this
can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without
pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique
with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng>
know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud}
All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts...

> Dag Dab It!

> I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
> $50.

> Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
> Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
> to no avail.
> Is it me or what?
> At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
> That sucks.
> I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
> And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
> and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
> pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
> rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
> As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
> pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
> do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
> change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
> the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
> I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
> trying to keep the car straight...
> The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
> the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
> make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
> moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

> Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
> wheel.
> I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
> Am I crazy?

> --
> -Gunslinger-

n2rif1.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Mike Kin** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

You can use a joy with throttle control - assign braking to the throttle.
Not sure if this is better or not as I use a wheel/pedals but it does mean
you can use brake/throttle at the same time.

Mike

>The only way to do it for analogue control. Only problem is braking and
>turning at the same time. It is extremely difficult to pull back to brake
>whilst holding a constant arc with the steering. After a while it becomes
>second nature but it takes practice.

by **ymenar** » Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
$50.

If you want an incredible pair of pedals for your racing, I really suggest
getting CH pedals. Not the Pro pedals (well take them if you want the extra
quality), but the normal ones. They do an excellent job for airsims as
well, and they are seriously a killer to add to your joystick or even the
T2.

On my side I have an EXL500 wheel (who is probably the Mercedes of plastic
wheels) with a pair of CH pedals. An almost TSW2 quality for near 100$.
And I have 4pedals (the EXL comes with crappy pedals), so I have them
configured on a line so I have a clutch on the left of my brake pedal! 8)

As for being faster.... well there is many of the fastest people use a
Joystick. It's a matter of personal preference. I know on the NROS you
can't be faster with a joystick, but with those 1967 Formula1 cars it's a
totally different thing. Many Papyrus employees have this configuration,
btw :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Ken Bear** » Fri, 09 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Way back when, I used to do driving games with the trusty CH Flightstick and
CH Flightstick Pro. I used side to side for steering, obviously, front for
gas, back for brake, and the buttons to shift. It can be done. The main
problem I had, and why I really really wanted at least some pedals, was that
when you were turning AND braking or accelerating at the same time, it was
hard to keep the stick from moving somewhat off your steering line when
pulling it back or pushing it forward. My CH Pedals helped a lot, but after
adjustment I like my Thrustmaster GP1 and now the NASCAR Pro a lot better
than the joystick.

--
Ken's Sig 2.01

"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system
of government.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from
some farcical aquatic ceremony."

Go #43 and #44!

volksy (at) geocities (dot) com
volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

>One of the best GPL-drivers, Wolfgang Woeger,
>also uses a stick WITHOUT pedals. I don't know how he manages it, but he's
>really fast (1:03.xx at the Glen).

WITHOUT PEDALS?? But how? If you just use buttons then you have
instant gas and instant brake, no in between.
I don't see how it is possible.

--
-Gunslinger-

by **Tadej Krev** » Fri, 09 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hi !

Just be patient, I use T2 too and it's a great wheel for the money (also
TM's support is the best).
I know some people were getting used to the wheel for several weeks not
hours.
1:38 at Glen was surely done with lots of spins ;-)

About pedals - use left foot braking. And sit a bit lower then now. I
never had problems with pedals
lifting from the floor, but I do sit quite low, lower then on an ordinary
office chair anyway (on some comfotable couch :o)

Practice the wheel for a week or so, the GPL itself is very tricky to
drive and if you're gonna learn
to drive with the wheel in GPL, you'll need a lot of patience.

Also, if you feel more confident with the stick, then use the stick. There
are some really fast drivers with
sticks out there (e.g. Wolfgang Woeger and Sasa Mencinger that I both
know, use sticks).

Also, there is a lot in the calibration. Don't calibrate all the way left
to right. Calibrate as little to the left & right as possible - this will
allow you for faster lock-to-lock steering when recovering from the spin.

Happy racing,
Tadej

> Dag Dab It!

> I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
> $50.

> Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
> Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
> to no avail.
> Is it me or what?
> At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
> That sucks.
> I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
> And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
> and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
> pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
> rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
> As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
> pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
> do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
> change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
> the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
> I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
> trying to keep the car straight...
> The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
> the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
> make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
> moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

> Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
> wheel.
> I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
> Am I crazy?

> --
> -Gunslinger-

by **schwab** » Fri, 09 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Well, you can somewhat... trail braking in the real sense means you are
finishing your braking and turning in at the same time... you have the
brakes on lightly as the turn starts. With the right setup, this can
allow you to brake later and still get a nice turn-in.

I have a Flightstick (old, beatup and as loose as a 60-year-old ***)
and I can "occasionally" do it... Wolfie I think may do it more, but he
obviously has more finesse on the j-stick than me. But you can do it, it
just takes concentration and smoothness.

--Dave

"^Fretts

> I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98.
> Since
> 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake"
> all
> the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on
> the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem}
> So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or
> Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there
> & I am sorry if I missed you!
> Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick
> only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this
> can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without
> pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique
> with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng>
> know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud}
> All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts...

> > Dag Dab It!

> > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
> > $50.

> > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
> > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
> > to no avail.
> > Is it me or what?
> > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
> > That sucks.
> > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
> > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
> > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
> > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
> > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
> > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
> > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
> > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
> > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
> > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
> > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
> > trying to keep the car straight...
> > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
> > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
> > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
> > moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

> > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
> > wheel.
> > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
> > Am I crazy?

> > --
> > -Gunslinger-

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~schwabe

by **Tadej Krev** » Fri, 09 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I know him well, we chat sometimes via ICQ. :o)
The thing is that Wolfie doesn't trail brake much,
but when he does, his setup is understeering enough
so he doesn't have to correct with tapping the brake.

It's that simple. And btw. you can be fast without trail
braking too. Another approach is to use little brake ratio
(at 53 or 54%) which causes the ideal braking into the
turn and you can brake and turn, but obviously all in the
friction circle because you can't reach over the limit and
stay on the track for a long time ;-)

Cheers,
Tadej

^Fretts

> I started using a sim steering wheel when I first got Gpl in Nov. 98.
> Since
> 93 I used the CH F-16 Combat stick with all sims. Since I "trail'brake"
> all
> the time in Gpl I went to the TM Sprint Wheel with gas/brake paddles on
> the steering wheel. {I can't use my feet/legs cause of a serious problem}
> So the Sprint is perfect for me!! I am no Graeme Nash, Wolf Woeger or
> Dave Mansell. I know I have not listed 1/100th of the hotshoes out there
> & I am sorry if I missed you!
> Bottom line: {For Me} is I wonder how you "trail'brake" with a joystick
> only using an X+ or X- axis.? You can't "trail'brake" very well with this
> can you? Also did anyone ask "Wolf W" how he races so well without
> pedals? I'd hope that Wolf might be nice enough to share his technique
> with us without giving away any secrets! So does anyone on this <ng>
> know Wolf Woeger to ask? {Just thinking aloud}
> All the above is only IMO.. Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts...

> > Dag Dab It!

> > I went out and bought a Thrustmaster T2 with pedals from a friend for
> > $50.

> > Guess what?? Arghhh. I do better with my TM Topgun stick and CH
> > Pedals! I have tried for 3 days to get used to the wheel and TM pedals
> > to no avail.
> > Is it me or what?
> > At the Glen, in GPL, the best I could do with the wheel is 1:38.00
> > That sucks.
> > I can do 1:20.00 with the stick.
> > And these TM Pedals are garbage IMHO. The pedals are way too close,
> > and they tip over when pressing the gas.. To make matters worse the
> > pedal rotates about 30 degrees so when you go full pedal the pedal
> > rotates forward, making me loose foot grip on it.
> > As for the space between the pedals.. Come on.. Did they make these
> > pedals for people with size 4 shoes? If I drive one footed (like you
> > do in a normal car) I keep hitting both the gas and brake when I
> > change pedals.. If I drive two footed (One on brake and one on gas)
> > the damn pedal device lifts off the floor toward my feet.
> > I then tried TOCA 2 with the wheel... Jesus... I got a work out just
> > trying to keep the car straight...
> > The distance you have to turn the wheel versus flicking my wrist with
> > the stick is too far. My hands have to travel roughly a foot plus to
> > make the wheel turn the same distance I can turn using the stick my
> > moving my hand maybe 4 inches.

> > Funny how my $20 stick that I bought 2 years ago is better than a
> > wheel.
> > I thought a wheel is supposed to make you better, not worse?
> > Am I crazy?

> > --
> > -Gunslinger-

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Thom j.

> HTML Mail
> Additional Information:
> Last Name j.
> First Name Thom
> Version 2.1

rec.autos.simulators

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