rec.autos.simulators

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

Peter Ive

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Peter Ive » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00



> >> It *would* help, though...

> >> Eldred

> >Why?
> >--
> >-Ace-

> Because GPL misrepresents speed visually below about 90 MPH?  I have
> to use Arcade Mode and review the replays when learning a track just
> to see how fast I was actually going when I went off.

> Between about 30 and 70 MPH I cannot tell at all how fast I'm going
> just by looking.  I have to judge max cornering speed by learning that
> it's a slow 1st gear corner or a fast 2nd gear corner, etc.

Funny? That's how I've always done it in every racing sim I've ever
played and no matter what speed the corner is. :)
Eldre

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Eldre » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>% It *would* help, though...

>It might appear to help and yes it might allow you to "set in concrete"
>a way around a track.  However, in reality it would more than likely
>hurt in the long run.  '67 GP cars were not driven by instrument (ala
>air planes), but by the seat of the pants.  Once the driver got used to
>the gear ratios put in the car, I doubt they even used the tach (they
>used their ears).  If you try to drive the car by instrument panel, you
>won't learn what you really need to know to drive it to its limit and
>beyond.

Ok, how do you learn that?  Currently, I have problems on the slow corners.  I
either brake too late, and overcook, or brake too early, and have to
accellerate again before the turn.  Frustrating.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Eldre » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00


>Eldred, drive with the outside wiev, you have the speed indicator, helpsme a
>lot when exiting the ascari at monza if I'm above 292 then it's looking good
>for the straight.

I may try that, just to see what kind of exit speeds I'm getting.  Currently,
one lap looks like another, and they're ALL slow...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Eldre » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00


writes:

>I judge my cornering speed by tyre squeal, engine revs, and the car drifting
>(or not). I don't care what the MPH is, I'm just wanting to be at the limit.
>I don't need to see the speed to know whether or not I'm going as fast as I
>can, and neither did the RL drivers of '67. MPH is really only useful for
>analysis, which can be done better from replays, rather than while you're
>in-car, trying to drive.
>--
>-Ace-




>> >> It *would* help, though...

>> >> Eldred

>> >Why?
>> >--
>> >-Ace-

>> Because GPL misrepresents speed visually below about 90 MPH?  I have
>> to use Arcade Mode and review the replays when learning a track just
>> to see how fast I was actually going when I went off.

>> Between about 30 and 70 MPH I cannot tell at all how fast I'm going
>> just by looking.  I have to judge max cornering speed by learning that
>> it's a slow 1st gear corner or a fast 2nd gear corner, etc.

Well then, you're better than I am.  On the hairpins, for example, I simply
canNOT judge my speed correctly.  I usually end up just coasting up to them,
then nailing the brakes at the last moment...and STILL end up going too slow...
You forget, the real drivers also could feel g-forces acting on their bodies.
When I went to Laguna Seca, I didn't have too much of a problem knowing when I
was at the limit.  On a computer, I have a problem...
What speed computer do you have?

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Andre Warring

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Andre Warring » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Eldred, at the hairpins I allways use the look left / look right
buttons to judge how fast I can take it.
It's really usefull, especially when you've got the look left/right
buttons on your wheel...

Andre

Brett C. Camma

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Brett C. Camma » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00


>I judge my cornering speed by tyre squeal, engine revs, and the car drifting
>(or not). I don't care what the MPH is, I'm just wanting to be at the limit.
>I don't need to see the speed to know whether or not I'm going as fast as I
>can, and neither did the RL drivers of '67. MPH is really only useful for
>analysis, which can be done better from replays, rather than while you're
>in-car, trying to drive.

I didn't say I used it when racing.  I said I found it useful when
learning a track.  Spinning off the same ***y corner ten or fif***
times until you either give up or get it is rediculous when I can scan
a replay or go through it a couple times in arcade view.  I cannot
tell you how many times I would blow a corner and finally go back to
the replay and say "Shit!  I was going 70?  I thought I was doing
about 45!".  Then I'd go back in arcade mode, set my entry speed and
verify it with a glance at the speed indicator, and if it felt good
I'd remember the gear and the revs.  After a time or two I'd have that
one***ed and go on until I encountered another problem child.

 I think it's a perfectly reasonable tool to assist you past a problem
corner while learning a track.  Every one you go to usually has a
different gearset, so you can't just have gear/revs permanently
engraved in your foreconcious.

Once I've learned where the gear and rev ought to be for a corner I
don't give a rat's ass about the MPH either (unless
comparing/analyzing laps when practicing/training).  I do think it's
perfectly unreasonable to expect a speedometer plastered to the center
of the dash.  GPL is a sim and not a game, but I ain't Jim Clark, so
sometimes I need help learning a corner or track...

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

Matthew V. Jessic

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Matthew V. Jessic » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

It's interesting to me that there are racing series
where having a speedometer in the car is
literally against the rules. (SCCA Trans-Am)

http://www.scca.org
http://www.trans-amseries.com/index.html
http://www.sccapro.com/00rulebook/index.html    Section 25.1 Gauges

- Matt

Eldre

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Eldre » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>>Well then, you're better than I am.  On the hairpins, for example, I simply
>>canNOT judge my speed correctly.  I usually end up just coasting up to them,
>>then nailing the brakes at the last moment...and STILL end up going too
>slow...
>>You forget, the real drivers also could feel g-forces acting on their
>bodies.
>>When I went to Laguna Seca, I didn't have too much of a problem knowing when
>I
>>was at the limit.  On a computer, I have a problem...
>>What speed computer do you have?

>Eldred, at the hairpins I allways use the look left / look right
>buttons to judge how fast I can take it.
>It's really usefull, especially when you've got the look left/right
>buttons on your wheel...

>Andre

Well, I only have two wheel-mounted buttons.  I'm using them for the gearshift.
 I'm surprized that the look left/right helps that much.  I'm surprized you
have time to USE the left/right buttons, while braking, steering, downshifting,
looking for traffic, etc...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Doug Schneide

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Doug Schneide » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Pick brake markers, any distinguishing feature that you can see
reliably, regardless of where traffic is on the track.  Shoot for
consistency first, the same amount of brake applied at the same rate for
that particular turn on that particular track.  AFAIK, this is something
that really does have to be memorized for every baking point on every
track.  Once you can hit your markers reliably every time and do
consistant laps, you can start adjusting them.  Try braking later and
harder on a given turn.  This is where I think the "seat of the pants"
stuff comes in.  Tire squeal is probably your best feedback as to how
close to the edge you are.  Personally, I try to avoid locking the tires
at all costs because you sacrifice control, but have been known to do it
while trying to outbrake someone.  I also try to get ALL the braking
done with the car going straight, unless I'm extremely confident in my
ability to trailbrake a particular corner.  Also Eldred, if you're not
using your left foot for braking yet, you gotta get over the hump and
start doing that.  Keeping a touch of throttle applied while you brake
can really help you get through the corners by keeping the suspension
loaded up in the right direction.

But why am I telling you this?  The only tracks I'm doing any better
than you are Mosport and Rouen, and you're driving a Cooper at Rouen,
you could knock three seconds off there just by switching to the red
car.  You're plain kicking the ***out of me at the Ring.  Got any tips
for me?

        Doug, GPL hcp +96.70




> >% It *would* help, though...

> >It might appear to help and yes it might allow you to "set in concrete"
> >a way around a track.  However, in reality it would more than likely
> >hurt in the long run.  '67 GP cars were not driven by instrument (ala
> >air planes), but by the seat of the pants.  Once the driver got used to
> >the gear ratios put in the car, I doubt they even used the tach (they
> >used their ears).  If you try to drive the car by instrument panel, you
> >won't learn what you really need to know to drive it to its limit and
> >beyond.

> Ok, how do you learn that?  Currently, I have problems on the slow corners.  I
> either brake too late, and overcook, or brake too early, and have to
> accellerate again before the turn.  Frustrating.

> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> GPL hcp. +70.45

> Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

don hodgdo

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by don hodgdo » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00




> Well, I only have two wheel-mounted buttons.  I'm using them for the
gearshift.
>  I'm surprized that the look left/right helps that much.  I'm surprized
you
> have time to USE the left/right buttons, while braking, steering,
downshifting,
> looking for traffic, etc...<g>

> Eldred
> --

Try using it on the entrance to Lowe's at Monaco. Looking left as I turn
into the hairpin seems to help get a better exit and run down the hill.

--
don

New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks:
http://www.ianparker1.freeserve.co.uk/gpl/index.html

Eldre

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Eldre » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00







>> Well, I only have two wheel-mounted buttons.  I'm using them for the
>gearshift.
>>  I'm surprized that the look left/right helps that much.  I'm surprized
>you
>> have time to USE the left/right buttons, while braking, steering,
>downshifting,
>> looking for traffic, etc...<g>

>> Eldred
>> --

>Try using it on the entrance to Lowe's at Monaco. Looking left as I turn
>into the hairpin seems to help get a better exit and run down the hill.

Ok, I'll give it a shot.  After all, I don't have to PAY for the damage I do to
the Ferrari...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Eldre » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>Pick brake markers, any distinguishing feature that you can see
>reliably, regardless of where traffic is on the track.  Shoot for
>consistency first, the same amount of brake applied at the same rate for
>that particular turn on that particular track.  AFAIK, this is something
>that really does have to be memorized for every baking point on every
>track.  

That's the problem.  On the tracks I'm really having problems with, there
AREN'T any distinguishing brake markers...  This may have to do with my
monitor, or the graphic settings that I need to get a good frame rate.  If I

I'm just not co-ordinated for that yet.  I haven't had time for the hours and
hours needed to be able to do that.  My Cooper league is over now, so I don't
have to worry about screwing up any races.  That was one main reason I hadn't
given it serious effort.  I'm *already* slow in my league, why***it up
worse...?

Uh, no I can't.  I've use the Ferrari since those times(Rouen, Monaco) were
set.  I can't beat them yet...  I got close at Rouen, but I'm not even within a
second at Monaco.

>You're plain kicking the ***out of me at the Ring.  Got any tips
>for me?

>    Doug, GPL hcp +96.70




>> >% It *would* help, though...

>> >It might appear to help and yes it might allow you to "set in concrete"
>> >a way around a track.  However, in reality it would more than likely
>> >hurt in the long run.  '67 GP cars were not driven by instrument (ala
>> >air planes), but by the seat of the pants.  Once the driver got used to
>> >the gear ratios put in the car, I doubt they even used the tach (they
>> >used their ears).  If you try to drive the car by instrument panel, you
>> >won't learn what you really need to know to drive it to its limit and
>> >beyond.

>> Ok, how do you learn that?  Currently, I have problems on the slow corners.
>I
>> either brake too late, and overcook, or brake too early, and have to
>> accellerate again before the turn.  Frustrating.

--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ace

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Ace » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I have a PII 450, 128Mb RAM, with twin V2s. I use the ACT LABS force RS,
with shifter, but with FF turned off. Get a steady 34-36 FPS even with a
full field
--
-Ace-

> Well then, you're better than I am.  On the hairpins, for example, I
simply
> canNOT judge my speed correctly.  I usually end up just coasting up to
them,
> then nailing the brakes at the last moment...and STILL end up going too
slow...
> You forget, the real drivers also could feel g-forces acting on their
bodies.
> When I went to Laguna Seca, I didn't have too much of a problem knowing
when I
> was at the limit.  On a computer, I have a problem...
> What speed computer do you have?

> Eldred

Ace

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Ace » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00

<snip>

Don't know what pedals you use, but have you tried heel and toeing? This
would allow you to squeeze on a bit of power under braking, without your
rebel left foot having to get involved.
--
-Ace-

Ace

GPL: how make it use the whole screen? not letterbox

by Ace » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00



<snip>

But they're in your *subconscious*, and like working out the braking points,
it's part of the learning process...

Well GPL is a sim. If there was a speedometer, people would complain it's
unrealistic. You can find your speed from the replay, which is good enough.
--
-Ace-


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